You said basically, "We told you so!" and I wanted to know who the "we" was. You said the "we" was independent media. So from that, I took it that you are included in the independent media. You're also complaining about Harris a lot, so that lead me to believe that you didn't vote for her as well. It could be that you voted for her, but you can see why others didn't, that's why I'm asking. I'm not pulling anything, just trying to see where you're coming from and if you're an American.

I'm sure they appreciate the change in sympathies from the world.

Oh wait.

So you don't show up. Got it.

Glad you think a slide into fascism is a joke.

No. You need to read that SCOTUS decision. The Supreme Court retained the authority to decide which actions are official acts due immunity and which are not. Therefore, had Biden attempted to use that immunity in the way you suggest, this biased SCOTUS would simply have ruled his actions unofficial and therefore not immune from prosecution.

Crickets regarding South Sudan and Ukraine...

How can the corporations get out of the way to stop letting corporations run the country?

I can’t hear you with all this AIPAC money 💸

He's not blameless

Both of them

Here it is. Not pretending that this is about anything beyond your ability to claim the high ground. How has that worked out for Gaza?

You said basically, “We told you so!” and I wanted to know who the “we” was.

The perspective that Biden/ Harris needed to shift her position on Gaza, and as we approached November 24, that they needed to shift this position to win the election was in practically every political comment for almost 2 years before the election, and not just on Lemmy. Youtube, reddit, instagram, and especially tiktok; wherever you went on the internet, this argument was being made, consistently and regularly, on political content.

This was especially true for more left-ish media, where almost all of the Democratic or leftist aligned media, recognized and covered the tragedy which was Israels genocide in Gaza much more extensively than other media. If you were a potential Democratic voter, you were assuredly far more exposed to the recognition that there was a genocide in Gaza, that it needed to be stopped, that the administration wasn't doing anything to stop it, and that neither the Biden nor Harris campaign made even the slighted overture that they would stop it in a future administration.

"We" is anyone, commenter or content creator (or journalist, if you aren't into the whole brevity thing). People were ringing the bell that if Biden/ Harris, and later Harris/ Walz didn't change their positions on the genocide in Gaza, they would lose the election. I consider myself to be a part of that contingent.

You’re also complaining about Harris a lot

As long as people continue to blame voters for something that was a controllable mistake on the part of Harris, which was well known and well communicated for being a mistake at the time it was being made. Its important to keep bringing the focus back to the only party with sufficient agency to have made a different choice.

Only Harris had the agency, as an individual, to make a different choice to change the outcome of the election. It was clear they were losing the election by continuing to support Israel over Palestine. My comment history is right there. I was full blown coconut-pilled as soon as Biden stepped down. And as it became clear that Harris wasn't going to take the opportunity to shift on Gaza, it was urgency to move the candidate became paramount. It was obvious that the Democrats would lose the election on the issue of Gaza as early as November of 2023.

Whether you or I personally did or didn’t do is beside the point. I’m making a claim about how incentives and strategic choices produced an outcome, and that claim stands or falls on the evidence about the system, the candidates, the actual election that happened, not on any individual behavior (with the exception of individuals in explicit positions of power). When you make it about individual behavior, your whole ass is showing. You are trying to distract from actually valuable conversation about what it would have taken to win the 2024 election for Democrats.

Schrödinger's anti-genocide vote. Simultaneously able to have determined the outcome of an entire election, but also not important enough of a coalition to address their concerns and bring them (back) into the tent.

You're correct but apparently this thread is only for hyperbole. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

that they needed to shift this position to win the election was in practically every political comment for almost 2 years before the election, and not just on Lemmy. Youtube, reddit, instagram, and especially tiktok; wherever you went on the internet, this argument was being made, consistently and regularly, on political content.

The argument was made in social media areas that are tailored specifically for you. This is going to sound snarky, but I sincerely don't mean it that way. Even a 5 years ago, algorithms were tailoring your feeds.

For me personally, trump was a huge threat and he's turning out to be worse than I imagined. I wasn't seeing any Gaza stuff, because I kind of thought we would be more concerned about not having nazis in the white house.

I did in fact read it. I did in fact read the dissenting opinions. I did in fact listen to the case as it was being presented including all the theoreticals posed.

Biden could have him killed or pushed out of a c130 somewhere over the pacific and then scotus would step in after the fact. It was literally one of the dissenting opinion points about just how far this could be abused before it’s reigned in.

T hasn’t even begun to test the limits to the powers he was given, and Biden just like so many other things, fecklessly dismissed.

The argument was made in social media areas that are tailored specifically for you. This is going to sound snarky, but I sincerely don’t mean it that way. Even a 5 years ago, algorithms were tailoring your feeds.

Clearly one of the two of us had the correct ability to take in and process information to develop the understanding that with Harris' position on Gaza, they were going to lose the election. You didn't see it as a priority or a major component of their electability. I did. So you got this wrong. And that signal was clear as early as November of 23, when it was clear that Israel was going to conduct a campaign of extermination. Like you said, you didn't think this was a priority.

If you saw getting Harris as elected as being the top priority for stopping fascism, and missed this critical signal, you might consider that it is you yourself who is living in a social media blinkered reality. It sounds like you missed the most important signal of the election. And like, come on. We know this isn't true. We know how much you were on lemmy at that time. We can go read your comments and posts from November 23 to November 24. I know you saw the signal. Its not that you didn't see the signal, its that you chose to ignore it.

And that signal wasn't only present journalism and social media. It was also present in polling data. Biden had been drowning among Democrats on the issue of Gaza for the end of 23/ 24. And beyond polling data, but there were quite literally political movement who got these data into election results. Did you miss the entire "undecided" movement? And I know you didn't. You are a politics and news junky. You see and read everything.

ml is full of people who were advocating not voting because Harris wouldn't condemn Israel loudly enough. Yes, it would be great to focus on improving the lives of Americans but there's zero chance of that while republicans have a trifecta. Democrats can at least be pressured into doing the right thing sometimes.

Your comment reads like you think I'm a DNC strategist or something. I can't directly control their messaging, but I can try to point out to people that by the time November comes around there are only two possible outcomes and having a hissy fit about Gaza is only going to make the world a worse place and that "I can't vote for genocide" just helped the guy who is gleefully embracing all the genocides.

This country has been fascist. Liberals bury their heads in the sand when it's their team doing it

Didnt show up for you, that's what you are upset about. Liberals hate leftists because we refuse to drag ourselves to the right with you, you want the confirmation that what you are doing is right and we won't give it to you, because what you are doing is wrong

Or the case put together by Mueller during Trump's presidency! Where the only impediment to going to trial was that Trump was currently president.

These people will talk about slow and steady justice until the statute of limitations expires and then praise the prosecution for being cautious. If this was the best our justice system could do, we don't have one.

You weren't seeing any Gaza stuff? And you think that makes you a more responsible form of voter?? There was an international genocide case and regular reporting about domestic political groups lobbying Biden/the campaign/DNC to acknowledge it.

Also, you were literally here. Where Gaza material and it's threat to the election were being posted about.

You mean it's been a class war this whole time? 0.o

Rhetoric aside, it is all really quite painful to take in. The contradictions are even more in plain sight than they've ever been before. Hard to believe anyone can ignore the flames erupting on all sides. luckily there's nothing more dangerous than a cornered jackal. The soul of the masses seem to be more and more in unison and sync. Do you believe the people can organize and act? I have doubts, but also aren't we almost beyond any influence of skepticism in this era of desperation?

MERRICK GARLAND

GAZA

And let's cross our fingers on Sotomayor.

we can still mend this

LOUD NOISES!

I LOVE LAMP!

Plenty of things to criticize but this mindless bullshit misses the forest for the trees…

We will mend this.

.ml thinks Russia is liberating Ukraine they don’t mind that genocide.

He still speaks better than Trump. He is more cognitively in tact and shows better judgement as well. Always has.

Oh I'm sorry, I thought your complaint was that no one was criticizing anything under his control that happened during his time in office. But it seems like you were just jerking off and now want to make an entirely different argument.

Although somehow, Trump being just as mentally incompetent, wasn't an issue. He may be a couple years younger but he is in no objectively measured way more competent. The GOP could run a sewer rat and leftists would still complain that the human Democrat was more of a problem. No, Biden, there isn't a way back. America is hooped.

We shall mend this.

We are mending this.

You are so fucking ignorant if you think the wheels of justice were slowly turning.

Why hasn’t anyone in your country done anything to prevent it?

Which is why he should've started running the Project 2025 playbook and either forced the Republicans to pass laws against his acts or had SCOTUS invalidate them. Now that Trump is in office he could create a Medicare-for-all solution called Trumpcare and the GOP loyalists would be gobbling his knob like it was the only way to get Raptured.

No I don't think you're an operative, but what I see (not just from you but plenty of people in online discourse) is excusing the actions of the Democratic party solely because Trump is bad.

The point that I will continue to shout from the top of the mountains, is that lesser evilism as a political strategy only enables fascism. We cannot counter its rise and current prevalence by just being slightly better. It takes bold impactful direction on how to improve people's lives to energize and engage the population.

The average voter doesn't care if a leader gleefully embraces genocide or just tactically enables genocide to fuel the military industrial complex. The outcome of wasted tax dollars to kill children is still the same. When we enable fascism abroad it always comes back to be used against us. We can see that with local police forces training with the IDF. Imperial Boomerang.

"Well at least democrats aren't killing Americans" inevitably is the next step of justification. But here's the thing, democrats don't use their opportunities to de-miltarize domestic law enforcement. They are responsible for co-opting and killing 2020 BLM demands. They are responsible for folding during the 2025 government shut down and fully funding ICE.

We deserve better. It's okay to say so. It's necessary for us to demand it. You and I are not ideological enemies (I would hope).

He wanted to have his genocide and give Israel everything he could, and as soon as he was gone Bibi shit on him and said he did very little. Fuck Biden.

Wait is the point you are trying to make right now that less Palestinians would have died under Harris?

they deserve to lose

Frankly, they deserve a trial at the Hague

Not without violence we can't, and liberals aren't willing to do that

Tankies cry about Gaza but don't give a shit about Ukraine, South Sudan, or Myanmar. That lack of discussion there not only undermines their creditability, but it makes them look as antisemitic as MAGA.

We have to scare them into compliance and that’s not going to be easy with kegsbreth trying to get AI mass surveillance and autonomous policing of the population plus aren’t they bringing in around 5k “white” South Africans a month I guarantee you they will be putting them in ice for their little state sponsored domestic terrorism on the polls campaign. Plus they are building 55 billion dollars worth of concentration camps possibly with incinerators compliments of core civic. DHS posted that they want to remove 100 million people and Miller has openly stated he thinks the US should only have 100 million people who all look like him…I don’t know where he’s going to find 100 million nasfaratus though

No it’s that the legit issues of his admin don’t seem to be the cause of your problems. Meanwhile this is your hill to die on…

I'm interpreting the way you're saying it as being a sarcastic joke but him being the POTUS made him the de facto leader of the Democratic party, who in turn failed to influence the majority of Americans to vote for them. It's been coming out recently that the party's own investigation into their 2024 loss revealed that the policy around Gaza played a significant role in their defeat, policy that self-proclaimed zionist President Biden had the power to influence and ultimately supported.

So yeah... It kinda is his fault.

Maybe Lisa's right about America being the land of opportunity, and maybe Adil has a point about the machinery of capitalism being oiled with the blood of the workers.

Go on then, you and your mates first

Obviously, no comment. But things have happened and other things are in motion.