Notice how the criticisms are based on a fundamental lie: that feddit.org is a zionist instance. Without that lie all of the agitators “arguments” crumble to the sad leftist-dividing dust that they are.

"They're not zionist, they just defend Israel's right to exist."

They are zionists and so are you. You're also a dishonest coward who replies to people through edits and hopes they don't notice. Death to "Israel" and death to the Federal Republic of Germany.

Edit:

Calling for death to nations (and their civilians) is a call for genocide. I hope non-extremists can see that.

Also, as a tip: don’t answer the trolls and agitators. Leave them hanging, screaming into the wind.

You are literally answering me, lmao. Well, not really, you're actually replying to things I didn't say.

Defending pissrael is zionism. Anything short of "Death to pissrael" is zionism. Sorry I don't make the rules, I merely enforce them.

The soyjack "I was just following orders" vs the chad

Sorry I don’t make the rules, I merely enforce them.

OK, if that's true then I what I'm saying here doesn't apply.

I don't think we can expect commenters to be as nuanced as an academic specializing in genocides.

On the legal front, it is to me morally obvious that that comment was pretty measured and deleting it was fucked. If you claim to do a fucked thing for legal reason, I think it's fair to demand evidence that you are under legal duress. Is there a history of feddit specifically or german fedi sites.in general being hammered for "antisemitic" comments?

The answer to that would determines how much I am pissed at german authorities for misapplying the law or at feddit admins for being biased and/or cowards.

Maybe... this is where I guess the instance rules get in the way because I'd like to know what exactly that looks like. Because it's well known that communists and others tried to violently resist the Nazis in the lead up to the third reich. So you'd have to articulate how your strategy was different from what was tried and failed.

My reading of history is that sporadic violence is a very ineffective anti-fascist tactic.

cops under a DotB vs cops under a DotP

Another user mentioned that feddit.org may have been consistently censoring anti-Zionist voices. If that's true it would make this a lot more reasonable in my view. However the post doesn't seem to explicitly make this claim, so I am curious if it's true. It left me with the impression that they were defederating mainly due to the presence of some Zionist users on the instance, which seems a very excessive response when the ability to ban individual users exists.

What's wrong with calling Hamas terrorists? They have randomly but deliberately killed innocent people. How else would you describe that?

🙇‍♀️

If you allow people defending a supermasist ideology like zionism than you are a zionist bar simple as that

Sure, if you have total power over the media ecosystem. But we don't.

So the question has to be asked--are you banning Zionism from the public square or simply exiling anti Zionism into a small echo-chamber where no one will hear it anymore and Zionism will go unchallenged? This is my problem with this approach.

Notice how the criticisms are based on a fundamental lie: that feddit.org is a zionist instance.

Well, I think this is where the "Nazi Bar" metaphor comes into play. I think its defensible for db0 to clearly say, and they had a debate, provided evidence, etc.., that feddit.org clearly has a Zionist problem. We could argue with their process, evidence etc.. but we can't disagree that they did have a process, provided evidence, etc..

Calling for death to nations (and their civilians) is a call for genocide. I hope non-extremists can see that.

I mean isn't that the point? Feddit is turning a blind eye to this when it comes from a specific, narrow ideological group. The argument being made is that Feddit is either defending or turning a blind eye to one specific group of people who are ideological advocates for genocide because they do it on behalf of Israel.

And to be clear and I've said this elsewhere. I don't think you leave a Nazi (in this metaphor, Zionists) bar to the Nazis. If you find out that a group of Nazi's walked into the bar you are in, you collect your group of friends at your table, and you walk over and start a fight. Don't give them an inch.

I think the argument here is that if you don't want to be known as a instance supporting genocide and fascism, you have some work to do.

If you are a coward then just don't talk at all sbout Gaza and don't defend zionism

There is no black and white in settler colonialism

Would you allow nazism in the fediverse?

Shouldn't it be obvious I'm not? Read the post again:

I know there is a lot of desire by people unhappy with the outcome to scapegoat me as personally responsible (and take out their anger on me personally) but this is a community effort and would've likely happened with or without me.

You know full well that this is not relevant to the point I was making, and seems like arguing in bad faith. If so, then please reconsider being kind and rational.

If you are genuine, then: I hoped it was very obvious that I know that some of what Israel is doing is as bad, and worse than what happened in the Holocaust. That does not mean that the scale is the same, or that the situation leading up to this is the same. While very clear parallels can be seen, and the direction this is going is very clear as well, it is simply false that the genocide in Gaza is even in the same order of magnitude as the Holocaust yet. That does not mean that the genocide in Gaza isn't absolutely terrible, what I'm saying is that the Holocaust was just that bad. Is that enough amendment?

I don't disagree with your assessment that some kind of propaganda in support of zionism and maybe even genocide is happening. But if you really see support of genocide and zionism in what I personally just said, I really don't know what I could say to convince you. It seems you're not truly listening to me and trying to understand. I can just hope eventually you will see that there is no point to us fighting, and I wish you well.

Edit: and to say "Germans have learned literally nothing from the Holocaust" is just ridiculous. You're using false hyperbole to make Germans in general (who have very diverse political opinions individually!) seem like literal evil, and that simply helps no one except the ones that want us to fight.

Funny how you guys generalize ml users then get mad when people generalize feddit.org users

The Jewish population in Nazi Germany never launched rockets at Germans, in fact, jewish people in Nazi Germany were exceptionally peaceful.

"The Jews never fought back" is certainly an incredible take, especially from a German.

In Gaza, there is genocide happening, there is a power differential, and Palestinians need to fight back, but there is simply no rational denying that it’s not the same as the genocide in Nazi Germany.

Do you not understand colonialism? Of course you think history began on October 7th, 2023, but only when it concerns the actions of "Israelis".

There is no nuance in settler colonialism and supermasist ideologies

If you rely on the German standard, you'd never be able to call a genocide a genocide until its fully executed.

Which obviously supports those committing the genocide.

I think people attacking you as "pro-genocide" is exactly as reasonable as the German standard disallowing comparison of Nazism, which is funny.

The existence of a field of study which purports to compare genocide doesn't validate your assertion that Israel is less evil than the third Reich. I still don't think you can make this point.

The German law around speech comparing anything to Nazism sounds complex and subtle. I would argue that it's a matter for the courts to decide, rather than for unqualified moderators to overcomply in advance.

If you really see support of genocide and zionism in what I said, I really don't know what I could say to convince you. It seems you're not truly listening to me and trying to understand.

Oh no, people are not trying to understand your subtle and nuanced argument of "Palestinian genocide and the Holocaust are different because the Jews never fought back".

those people are people living in their home country have to obey local laws.

You have a moral responsibility to disobey moral injustices, even when, actually, especially when they are codified into law. If you rely on the German standard you have no functional mechanism to communicate that a genocide as as bad as the Holocaust is occurring. Which is obviously ridiculous, and you should disobey that law.

It is believing that the foreign jews had the right to come to Palestine, force a state on the local people which included jews then ethenically cleansing 850k of them. It is also when you reject a one state solution becsuse you believe it should always be a jewish state rather than a state with equal rights for everybody. What happen if after several centuries arab population of Israel bypass the jewish population?

My guess is that they’ll be seething when they find out.

From what I get, most of us are just relieved. The moderation team should definitely pop the champagne today, because there's a lot less work to do from now on. 🍾

You weren't criticizing me, I am just watching you dodge theirs.

If that is the case it doesn't make sense why Feddit had such a strong and hostile reaction to the existence and progress of the vote thread.

I didn't dodge theirs, I directly addressed it. Their "criticism" is a form of genocide denial. They are fabricating "equivalent" atrocities to a real genocide. Similarly, your "neutral observer" trick here is a cheap way to pretend you're not taking a side in an argument so that you can dodge criticism of the side you are picking. See the irony?

You are trying to reduce my argument to one dimension that "sounds" reasonable, while ignoring things like it literally being in the charter of Hamas to destroy all Jewish people in Israel. And you're going to say it is the prerogative of Palestinians to fight back, and again I would completely agree with you. It just doesn't make much sense to argue with you, so I'm going to stop.

Have you really not seen me multiple times calling the genocide in Gaza a genocide? The ability to recognize the genocide in Gaza as a genocide is very much there, you really can't see it?

Most people didn't even notice such a vote was happening until today, when it spilled over to lemmy.world.
A discussion topic about it on Feddit was only created six hours ago and most people in there are like "Oh no! Anyway...".

Seems more like you want people to be furious. We can all wish for something, but that doesn't mean it'll actually happen.

lol. Did you carefully read that?
80% of those excerpts are bot abuse prevention mechanisms. In CS, we call it sybil mitigation.

“The Jews never fought back” is not what I said. Again, you intentionally try to misinterpret what I said. I was specifically talking about the time before the Holocaust even started, there was no reason for Germans to fear Jewish people, as they were just normal people.

Do you not understand colonialism?

I'm completely aware that this originally started with the zionist invasion of palestine in the early 20th century.

Killing innocent people is never a legitimate defense. Actually, it is no defense at all, because these innocent people did nothing to Gaza or Hamas.

An anarchist instance that chooses an authoritarian, Islamist, and reactionary organization as the hill on which it wants to die. It makes you want to bang your head against the table. What I see this much more as is a case of double standards. Because the IDF, which also kills innocent people, makes the same argument. "Oh, it's just defense."

You still haven't explained what is Zionist about calling Hamas Terrorist. You simply don't like my opinion about it, so you stick that label on it. It's intellectually lazy because it saves you from having to argue and allows you to rely solely on virtue signaling.

The ability to recognize the genocide in Gaza as a genocide is very much there

Only while saying the people resisting it are also wrong and doing Holocaust exceptionalism in defense of liberal zionists, lmao.

And now let’s go back to the original zionist accusations. The original comment was removed because of the last part of it, which said “Providing material support to Israel is no different from providing material support to Nazi Germany”. As much as people don’t want to see it, the situation in Gaza is actually different than the situation in Nazi Germany. The Jewish population in Nazi Germany never launched rockets at Germans, in fact, jewish people in Nazi Germany were exceptionally peaceful. In Gaza, there is genocide happening, there is a power differential, and Palestinians need to fight back, but there is simply no rational denying that it’s not the same as the genocide in Nazi Germany.

The original comment was good and correct. Supporting one settler state committing genocide is actually the same as supporting another.

Nice try but the USSR sided with the Nazis remember. They dont get any credit.

ah yes the “im just following orders” defence the favorite of the saurkrauts

What I said had nothing to do with that. Anyway, I can't keep up with all the stuff people are saying to me, so please excuse if I don't elaborate further.

jews actually did fought back against being exterminated by the Nazis

What I mean was in the time before the Holocaust even started.

You are trying to reduce my argument to one dimension that “sounds” reasonable, while ignoring things like it literally being in the charter of Hamas to destroy all Jewish people in Israel.

How surprising, you're doing Hasbara. The charter was irrelevant soon after it was written, Hamas changed many times very quickly throughout its history, and the charter you're referring to was in fact literally replaced with a new one in 2017. You are a zionist.

And you’re going to say it is the prerogative of Palestinians to fight back, and again I would completely agree with you.

No, you wouldn't and you didn't. The trick of "fighting back is their right but they're doing it wrong" isn't fooling anyone.

Technically, it's an astrospam measure.

Only while saying the people resisting it are also wrong

I've never said that the people resisting their genocide were wrong to do it. You're intentionally misinterpreting what I'm saying.

The original comment was good and correct

I don't disagree with you, that's why I tried to explain the nuance, but apparently I failed, I'm sorry about that.

What I mean was in the time before the Holocaust even started.

When do you think "Israelis" started committing genocide against Palestinians? Hint: "Israel" is a settler colony.

The communists spent the decade prior to World War II trying to form an anti-Nazi coalition force, such as the Anglo-French-Soviet Alliance which was pitched by the communists and rejected by the British and French. The communists hated the Nazis from the beginning, as the Nazi party rose to prominence by killing communists and labor organizers, cemented bourgeois rule, and was violently racist and imperialist, while the communists opposed all of that.

When the many talks of alliances with the west all fell short, the Soviets reluctantly agreed to sign a non-agression pact, in order to delay the coming war that everyone knew was happening soon. Throughout the last decade, Britain, France, and other western countries had formed pacts with Nazi Germany, such as the Four-Power Pact, the German-French-Non-Agression Pact, and more. Molotov-Ribbentrop was unique among the non-agression pacts with Nazi Germany in that it was right on the eve of war, and was the first between the USSR and Nazi Germany. It was a last resort, when the west was content from the beginning with working alongside Hitler.

Harry Truman, in 1941 in front of the Senate, stated:

If we see that Germany is winning we ought to help Russia, and if Russia is winning we ought to help Germany, and that way let them kill as many as possible, although I don’t want to see Hitler victorious under any circumstances.

Not only that, but it was the Soviet Union that was responsible for 4/5ths of total Nazi deaths, and winning the war against the Nazis. The Soviet Union did not agree to invade Poland with the Nazis, it was about spheres of influence and red lines the Nazis should not cross in Poland. When the USSR went into Poland, it stayed mostly to areas Poland had invaded and annexed a few decades prior. Should the Soviets have let Poland get entirely taken over by the Nazis, standing idle? The West made it clear that they were never going to help anyone against the Nazis until it was their turn to be targeted.

The communists were responsible for 80% of the total Nazi casualties. The communists beat the Nazis.

Very difficult to say this for sure.

I agree, but the death toll for example is a potential way to measure it. But again, I never said that the genocide in Gaza should happen, in fact I want it to be stopped by almost any means necessary, like not a counter-genocide.

Is that applicable here on Lemmy?

I'm not providing any commentary about what should be done, I was just hoping to help people understand that feddit.org is not filled or run by Zionists.