And capitalism when "voluntary exchange" in commodities

Sure, fuck it, that's communism. Death to communism, instead we must create a classless stateless society!

That has to be a troll account.

It is what American boomers think “communism” is.

It’s also not too far separated from the Soviet Union, which represents “communism” in many peoples minds despite its fairly rapid departure from Marxist ideals.

I read the comments and I think they are all wrong.

1. Current capitalism is not capitalism at all, it's oligarchy. Capitalism originally originated from an idea of everyone having the same equal opportunities. Right now it does not capitalism, it is a oligarheism or whatever - a circle jerk to syphon your wealth and make you poor - capitalism aas never designed for this.

2. Communism is about equality dictated by the government which also implies government for some reason is not equal to basic citizen. And communism doesn't allow the ability to grow. However, communism on paper really guarantees your social safety in terms of you will not die, you will have food, you will have a house. However, on practice, it didn't really work well. And current community countries are actually socialism.

3. Something good is always in the middle. We can have a capitalist-like growth opportunities and regulations from the government and social guarantees. For example, like in most countries in Europe, you have a wealth guarantee, you have a social and job protection. and also strict regulations on terms of companies so they will not abuse their customers and they will not abuse their employees

The current comment section is just a fight for nothing. The problem is not in the system capitalism, socialism or communism. The problem is in a legar case and circlejerk - where even the government is in. So it actually becomes harder and harder to actually have a good thing in common reason in socialism and in capitalism.

And we'll protect our gloriously fought victory with a vanguard enforcing conformity to support the eventual relinquishing of power to the proletariat once there is no longer class and we have expanded our stateless society worldwide, thus vanquishing borders!

Just need to kill off done rabble rousing anarchists first...

I wish anarchy would work.

1. Saying today is oligarchy not capitalism is like saying you don't have cancer you have stage four cancer

2. Communism is by definition a stateless society, not sure where you are getting those ideas about a communist government. Define "didn't work well". Nations such as Cuba have not achieved a communist utopia, but they did significantly improve the lives of their citizens in pretty much every way compared to pre revolutionary Cuba. Those states are obviously not communist and it is debatable to what extent they are socialist and not state capitalist.

3. Almost all European countries are currently in the process of removing as much of those social guarantees, which is a logically process that's pretty inevitably happens as long capitalism exists.

I don't know how did you get all 3 points so wrong

For fun, when I was in school, I'd ask people what they thought of this and that all the time and I was very much impressed that "what is ____" are questions that don't have answers. Our education is fucked.

Generally, to boomers capitalism and communism is absolutely summed up with that drunk in the grocery store story.

Consumer choice is typically the vibes.

good news

Ya know, there might be something to that as a strat.

1. Oligarchy is not caused by capitalism. These are different things. I'm not really sure if capitalism really caused it - it could just accelerated it. Bad people would so evil things in any system unless regulated

2. Communism requires state. Otherwise, it would be an anarchy - which never worked. About utopian communism:
   2.1 USSR - failed on the way to the communism due to economic reasons. The system wasn't able to handle it all, and USSR had huge deficits and poorness.
   2.2 China - "a communistic" country. Which is not really anymore. It just masks itself as one to still have a single leader (in their case a single party)
   2.3 about Cuba I have no idea, no experience

3. That is unfortunate. But this social guarantees are being removed by rich and power hungry people that are trying to aggregate more power. And power is money. Imagine money = capitalism = bad. But if we will remove money from the system - bad actors could still abuse their power in different ways (political weight, connections)

Im downoted to hell for a different opinion from lefties, righties and centrists. Cool. I love society. But it is not a reddit and no karma, so it doesnt matter :)

.world accounts usually do. I've given up trying to argue with them. 🤷‍♀️

It's not like Lenin didn't write about this same thing 100 years ago...

At least if anarchy were able to work there would be no "leaders" at all

Anarchy never worked except for the vast majority of human existence.

The thing where a warlord tells you what to do? No, death to anarchy, instead let's have a society where hierarchies are abolished and org charts are all rhizomatic and voluntary, with vigilant critiques of power differential with an eye to equalizing them as much as possible?

I said classless stateless society, not multi level marketing scam.

The vast majority of human existence: slavery and feudalism

Ah yes, the Soviet union where rent capped out at 10% of your salary, and that's just in places without any labor incentives. If you were in a new industrial town your rent was free since it was you doing a favor to the people in moving to a remote area and having to live in a new city. That's totally the same thing as American capitalism and totally opposed to Marxist ideals...

1. You have no idea what communism means. It is not anarchy, but mainly due to the difference in the way and not the goal. Saying communism requires a state is like saying water atoms require more than one proton and electron. It is literally the definition of what communism isn't is.

2.1 The USSR had economic problems, especially near the end, but it also had achieved great economic progress. If you consider the full existence of USSR it's economy grew equally to that of the West. The USSR however had a way worse start as it inherited a feudal society that had just lost a war and was attacked immediately by capitalist nations such as the USA. Other countries that had similar starting conditions grew significantly less than the West or USSR in the same time period. The USSR saw a significant increase in life expectancy: . It's economy later declined due to mismanaged and a expenditure for the military that wasn't feasable, but all in all I don't think it's fair to call the USSR a economic failure.

You young earth creationists get wilder all the time. Now the Earth is younger than bronze?

Communism has needed a rebrand for a while now

You know what my eyes are opened too —capitalism is when hard working Americans get all the capital and communist leeches aren't allowed to steal it just because they're in charge.

You know what goes well with capitalism? Democracy! You vote on your sheriff, so why vote for who your boss is at work, and how many sick days everyone gets? Let's go full capitalist!

The person who wrote the comment must be lobotized.

Don't forget moneyless.

What?!? Are you ok comrade?

Lenin after revolution, when people tried to do communism:

warlordism isn't anarchy.

Not at all. Here in South Africa, the ruling ANC has spent the last thirty years demonstrating what perfect neoliberal capitalists they are... yet you'll still find plenty of local neo-nazis blubbering about the (supposedly) "socialist" ANC.

Current capitalism is not capitalism at all, it’s oligarchy.

Gee... nothing oligarchical about a system where the rich hold all the power, eh?

Nothing at all, brightspark?

Communism is about equality dictated by the government

Really, brightspark? Nothing at all about a stateless, classless and moneyless society, eh?

The problem is not in the system capitalism,

Have you ever tried not eating paint flakes?

Yes!

Sounds good, count me in!

Seems to me they already have been

10%! Where can I sign up?

Lol "Communism".

I mean, it is moving past capitalism and into something else, but that thing is feudalism.

That's a troll

1930s-1980s USSR. (Gorbachev's reforms really fucked with some areas before the collapse but the edge of the union was unharmed until the 1991 collapse wherein many former states of the USSR experienced homelessness as a problem for the first time in 70 years.)

Also some parts of China have rules of 0-25% of your salary depending on location, whether or not you were a rural citizen before moving to a rented home, and why you moved. (not that normal rent is far off from that thanks to the fact only 8% of the Chinese population doesn't own a home.)

/woosh

Your thinking of written history, almost all of which was written by slavers and lords to justify them doing nothing and getting all the stuff.

The vast majority of human existence, from when we first diverged from apes until the agricultural revolutions, was organized around anarchic tribes and clans where they shared there resources and the leader "ruled" at the discretion of the tribe.

That shit happened after agriculture.

Communism requires state. Otherwise, it would be an anarchy

So is anarcho-communism an oxymoron for you then?

"Everything I don't like is socialist"

"The elite telling the working class to stand in line and dictating what to pay for a living expense. That is not capitalism"

Man, this is on the same level as "nazism is leftist ideology because national SOCIALISM!!!!!!!!!!!"

These were not benign, cooperative social structures. They were tiny dictatorships. The leader controlled the "discretion of the tribe" by eliminating dissent. The controlling principle of their social structure was "might makes right".

Other words for the broad concept you are describing are "harem" and "cult".

Most intelligent liberal.

Something good is always in the middle. We can have a capitalist-like growth opportunities and regulations from the government and social guarantees.

Ehrm... The current system has caused the sixth mass extinction on the planet. Capitalism will inevitable collapse because it incentivizes ecocide.

I guess call it whatever you want then?

Communism is when capitalism does something I don't like

Reminded me of this Adam Something video.