This fucking sucks but I get it. Been thinking the same. You made this place better and we are at a loss now!

Whatever you get into ma it bring you happiness and prosperity!

Host your own?

I’m OotL, does anyone have a link to whatever is being referenced here?

It's probably true that the Threadiverse is run mostly by power users, but that's not a flaw that should be addressed with technical limitations. It's just a matter of general inactivity.

I set up my Epic Games community years ago, but it has attracted less than a handful posters. MeanwhileOnGrad gets a lot of engagement but many posts are from cm, and most are probably from just a few users, while goat was the only moderator until becoming inactive recently. Again, just a matter of the Threadiverse barely growing (as evidence by the total MAU number being the same as 3 years ago) and consisting mainly of lurkers rather than something to pin on the ones who are actually active.

There's no question that PugJesus is not a bot, so if the limit hinders them, I'd have no reason to doubt that or want to tell them to just use the platform differently. If we are to talk disparity, people from Hexbear and the like tend to use alts, so they're the ones to benefit from the change.

https://piefed.social/post/2203748#comment_12082581

It's just kind of bad policy in general. As someone who moderates a community or two. I tend to upvote most engagement. It's just really a basic way to encourage engagement. It hasn't traditionally cost you anything. And when people see other people responding to their posts it makes them want to post more. Etc. If you have a number of communities and you do this. It will quickly blow through your limit in this case.

To be clear. I think rimu has good intentions. But to be further clear. I think they also rush into things like this. Looking at things from a purely numbers perspective while neglecting the human perspective. Programming and numbers are very logical. People are anything but.

I can buy that you were frustrated with lemmy. But the bit about how ZERO Linux distros work is just pure bait, you're on the Fediverse my dude! :-D

I am sorry that you are having such a hard time finding your way here. Fwiw initial migrations are common and relatively easy as you first find your way, and the vast majority of people here will tell the same story.

If you want to try just one more, PieFed.zip or Lemmy.zip (run by the same people) are the usual default instances to recommend to people these days. The latter would not be directly affected by it at all and the former could in theory except they've stated that they will reject this particular setting and disable it. They are SUPERB general-purpose instances if you aren't looking for anything particularly specific. (Personally I'm a little put off by the usage of the .zip suffix as it has ties to Google, but realize that I'm probably both over- and under-thinking that, so please ignore my paranoia:-P)

Tbh, your choice of 3rd party app has a much greater impact on your experiences here than anything else. I don't have much experience with those but do like Voyager - in fact I'm typing this in Voyager now. Perhaps give it a try?:-) It works with both Lemmy and PieFed so kinda doesn't matter which of those two that you choose.

No ads!! People are nicer here!! Well, some are dicks as always but far less often than Reddit, it feels like. I hope you find a reason to stay. At least, I hope that this internal drama isn't the reason that you decide to go - we argue bc we care about it. Be advised that the often-spoken secret to getting along in the Threadiverse/Fediverse is: block early, block often! On Reddit that has no chance of actually working, outside of small niche communities, but this is a small enough space that it ACTUALLY WORKS. Btw you can export and import your block lists as you migrate accounts, if you want to do so.

Based on the stats shown in Rimu's post, the monthly average vote count of the top 5000 of prolific voters was 1142, and among the top 147 prolific voters, their average monthly was 6868.

With a 240 daily limit, that comes out to 7200 votes per month, which is already above the average of the most prolific voters.

Those 147 top voters may be effected if they only voted sporadically throughout the month (so they vote like, 500 one day and 700 another, but with some rest days of no voting in-between), and those posting above that average who definitely would be effected appear to only total about 60 people.

So for 99% of the userbase, they would not need to consider rationing votes at all.

Twitter?

Hm. Are you sure you'd be drastically effected by this change? I just counted the comments made on all the posts you made 9 days ago (all made in the same day) as 73 (though I'm unsure what the average you would receive in a day is). Assuming you upvote every single one of those comments, that still leaves you 167 votes left over in that day for posts and comments in threads not made by you.

Do you have a rough idea of how many upvotes you may leave a day/session on lemmy?

No clue, but I hit the limit before the vote limit was even announced. I went to the Matrix channel, confused as hell, thinking it was a bug, and got told it was intentional.

In any case, 73 comments is without particularly discussion-heavy posts. On the 30th of June, for example, I had 93 comments in my posts on HistoryMemes alone, not including any of my other comms - or engagement on posts on the comm that aren't mine, or my engagement on comms I don't moderate.

Maybe you should look at PugJesus's posts before calling it low effort slop:

https://lemmy.world/u/PugJesus@piefed.social?page=1&sort=New&view=Posts

Map of China 400BC

Napoleonic forces in Russia

Meme about Year of Five Emporers

lol, isnt the point you want more, unless you want to be a tankie/conservative inclusive instances. is that what the staments guy was complaining about these instances.

Nooooooo pls noooooo dear Pug, don't leave us alone in these times :(

That being said, your own mental health is the most important thing you've got, so take care <3

ShitJustWorks seems fine.

We're on pawb.social and it's chill. Buncha furries though. Which is a plus for us!

(It also runs on Basically Lemmy, though they forked it because of the devs being crappy.)

-- Frost

It's not about karma, really. There are other reasons to upvote things. Over on Mastodon/the twitterlike side of fedi, stars/"likes" don't do /anything/ but tell the OP you liked their post, and are used widely as a social thing. (There is a total star count on posts, but stars don't get federated to other servers besides the poster's, so it's only accurate if you actually go to the poster's instance and look there.)

-- Frost

Spectacular how it went from everyone's favorite to an absolute mess.

Guess that's what happens when software becomes opinionated.

Nice! First time hearing of PyLova. Is that what quokk.au uses? Are there already any other instances powered by it?

Really sad over the direction PieFed takes, and this one sounds interesting.

That would be decidedly tragic. Your history posts are basically the most interesting things on here. I think a lot of people will be more mildly disappointed, including myself, to see you go.

If you do leave, thanks for the time you were here. You have been appreciated!

good riddance

My issue with some, but not all, of them is I tend to run into tankies posing as libertarians. Which is just as bad if not a little worse because many are just confused individuals.

But of a generalization, but it unsettlingly common.

Ok, so in the announcement post they talk about mostly technical reasons for this. But from the linked post it does in fact sound like the aim is to throttle most active members because they have too much influence?

This is what rubbed me the wrong way and I just couldn't figure out why. We all have one upvote to give, some people just give it way more of them - so in comes the great equalizer in the form of the daily quota.

I hope you pardon my exagerated metaphor, but this is like limiting free speech for journalists, because they excercise the right of free speech way more than others.

It's "just" votes so I'm hesitant to call this censorship but... this does feel like a first step. Will there be daily post quotas too because some people post more than others?

but that really doesn’t matter because each user still only gets one vote per post or comment.

where does the policy change actually impact the user then? I guess at maximum we can't upvote more that 240 things a day (comment or post). I think that's more than the vast majority of users do per day, right?

Yes it’s what Quokk.au uses. From what I know a few other instances are looking at switching.

i guess it's an anti-botting measure where they can't distinguish a power user from an automated system?

youtube still has a limit on upvotes, i am pretty sure it's 5000. once you have 5k they remove your oldest ones.

This is correct at the moment. One can check by going to your their Liked Videos playlist.

Thanks for the context. I rarely comment on your posts but seen them a lot. You will be sorely missed.

I've batted for piefed.social over in reddit to bring people into the threadiverse as well as here to newcomers that might want all the other good features piefed have. I guess I'll have to change instances, where I'm on as well as what I recommend.

I get that whilst also dancing on the idea that perhaps a power user shouldn't post so much? This is decentralized social media, there really shouldn't be an aim to maximise here: You post, you like, you don't like.

If the aim is to farm engagement and thus a "power user" is born, then I suspect their motives or at least implore them to touch grass more often.

I'm making a lot of judgements here, and probably deserve any downvotes I get here - but if your posting habits are indistinguishable from a bot, then question your posting habits

Pouring one out rn. Safe travels bud

yeach exactly diversity is the spice of life i'm glad to see you changed your mind on rimu

The point isn't about how many users are likely to hit the daily limit, the point is how having a daily limit might cause people to start rationing their votes. Instead of doling them out however they see fit, they might start thinking "hmm, but is this worth spending a vote on?"

Overall, that can have a chilling effect on voting in general, lowering engagement and reducing the motivation to post (if you only get a handful of upvotes on each post, it might feel "dead" and seem to have no point. It's encouraging to see several dozen users like your post). And that can expand to a chilling effect on posting.

Also, if someone has a disability or is recovering from illness or surgery then they're more likely to spend more time on here, meaning they're more likely to reach the vote quota. This disproportionally impacts them.

Sure, 240 a day is high, but it's not unreasonable for a human to reach, and it's nowhere near "obvious bot" territory.

Based on the charts rimu shared, there are so few users who actually reach "obvious bot" territory that it's impossible for them to not highlight themselves, and they should be easy enough to handle on a case-by-case basis. We're talking less than 10 accounts. Admins can look at each one to examine their activity, and if they're a bot they can remove the account.

There's no reason to limit people's votes.

There are so few accounts that have that much activity on them that admins could easily handle them on a case-by-case basis.

This doesn't get rid of the bot accounts, it only limits their voting activity like everyone elses, which will make them harder to detect.

Farming engagement has no incentive. It can't be monetized here, there's no karma. There would be no point.

Power users on the fediverse aren't doing it for personal gain, they're doing it to enrich the fediverse and make it a more attractive alternative to corporate social media.

We see so many complaints that it's dead here, or there aren't enough communities, or it's hard to find the right community for something, or if the community exists it might be dead. That's a lot of people's rationale for not switching from reddit.

Power users here are trying to fix that. It's an enormous task and more than a single user or a handful of users can do, but they're doing their part and in many cases carrying more than their share of the burden. This change is kind of a slap in the face to them.

Yeah, but some conditions are less unstable than others

True. I've got no argument there.

I'm... in general averse to instances using Lemmy, not because of admins, but because of the devs.

I get that. I've been wanting to move to piefed because of this too, but now I'm not sure which instance to use. I'll have to wait and see which one's don't implement the vote quota, because fuck that.

Even right now, there's a massive banner of the genocide-denying fascist devs of Lemmy begging for money on Sopuli.

I haven't noticed that. Is it only on the website? I'm using summit and the only donation banner I see on their homepage is one of the admins' patreon, and a few crypto wallets.

They even have a link to !ukraine@sopuli.xyz, so I assume that means they're not tankies or .ml supporters.

Again, I'm not trying to talk you out of your decision. Just sharing my experience and (limited) knowledge. I honestly don't blame you for leaving over this change, I probably would too in your situation. I'm just sad to see it.

If I had known they would implement such a drastic change so quickly, I would have argued more with rimu in that post where he shared the charts. It probably wouldn't have changed anything though, and I was already burnt out from arguing with tankies and trolls elsewhere on the fediverse. I was probably too grumpy to form a constructive and cool-headed argument anyway.

It just sucks overall.

i run a public onramp (not a lot of local content, wide open federation) instance https://moist.catsweat.com

Oof, I hate it...

All social media pretty much operates on a 90/9/1 division. Only 1% of users actively post. Only a fraction of that 1% are power users like PugJesus. Killing power users won't accomplish a different division of labour where more people post, it will only accomplish killing the ecosystem as a whole.

You thought the Fediverse was dead now? Wait until the power users disappear.

There goes one of my main reasons for visiting this site 😢

Why does that matter? Some people want to engage and some don't?

What's another good instance that isn't Lemmy and backed by tankies?

Ironically that sentiment is precisely what has driven these developments. The fact that it's now even causing the user who runs MWOG this kind of grief is just laying it on thick.

But frankly, I don't know either what PieFed is "trying" to be.

I no longer feel that I know this either. Maybe it wants to become more like nodeBB and Mastodon? It's definitely a departure from Reddit though, which again is fine but that fact being unannounced is what troubles me. Plus in the past Rimu has marketed it as a replacement for Lemmy, though I suppose that is up to heavy interpretation.

What are its core values and principles? And if not like Reddit, then why Reddit-shaped? Its visualization leads people to have certain EXPECTATIONS, whether it desires that to have occurred or not. Form typically follows function, so if deviating from them... what then?

because people here are a bit more similar in what they want to discuss

Rimu would seem to vehemently disagree. And legitimately people's needs fluctuate - sometimes you just want to unwind by watching some memes, while other times you can be more in the mood for a deeper conversation. Part of what I am saying here is that a more Reddit-esque general purpose solution has worked out well for us all so far. Now it seems like Rimu is wanting to offer additional "specialization", both by building it straight into the code (this recent controversy due to it having been offered as an opt-out rather than opt-in feature!!!), and by - with zero advanced warning & barely having announced it at all - suddenly deploying onto the flagship instance PieFed.social.

As we aim to "specialize", suddenly all these questions begin to become crucial (such as who are we and what do we want out of this platform), which previously when we were still more general-purpose were irrelevant.

On a general-purpose platform, we all got along just fine. But now if some things are "bad" that were previously "good", conflict inevitably arises.

And it's so confusing to people how sudden this all is, as it takes them time to absorb it all - e.g. how much of this specialization is able to be be set aside, like will PieFed.zip and .ca and .world be more welcoming to memes / "low-effort" content? while in contrast is PieFed.social now no longer mere not desiring such but becoming actively hostile to it? and making that the DEFAULT behavior in the code no less!!! We thus now need statements from PieFed.ca, .zip, .world etc. as to whether they support this new trend towards active hostility towards heavy upvoters. But again, this is all so new and sudden, that I would wager that many PieFed admins didn't even know this was coming up, so are unprepared for this.

This sudden deployment is a MAJOR part of the problem. Especially buried as it is in a v1.7 - like this hasn't been treated as the major backwards compatibility breaking change that it is, like I could see something like this in a 2.0, but buried in a 1.7 with hardly any explanation at all?

I would like Rimu to read more Machiavelli. It would help PieFed survive longer.

I know Lemmy has its issues, but I swear the more I hear about Piefed the crazier it sounds.

I will never understand why people want to trade the corporate nannies for some self-elected nanny.

We don't need any of this weird social engineering junk

I'm only subscribed to like 1-2 Beehaw communities, and every time I see a response on a post there, there's that little autopost telling me that Beehaw has superior levels of discussion and I better watch what I say. So I cringe a bit and just skip it.

Come to think of it, I should just unsubscribe to those Beehaw communities. There, done.

Tankies and libertarians are both conservatives. Different circus - same clowns. They have a chosen ingroup that's righteous and correct and handsome, and any argument-shaped sentences are just shuffling cards to justify that mandatory conclusion. Things are good because they do them.

To be honest I have not noticed many of either on SJW. Tankies aplenty on ML, an undercurrent on dbzer0, the rare dingus on anarchist.nexus. Libertarians? There's two guys who don't post anymore. I think they first came here for the same reason I did - overbearing admins on other instances.

Unless you're thinking of Universal Monk, but that motherfucker is an infectious disease.

I mean... I disagree with the vote quotas specifically, but anyone running an instance is gonna have to have some kind of controls, and Rimu's being open about what's going on and why and it's not a big deal for me. The point of the fediverse is that you can pick the particular instance whose policies you're OK with. With corporate sites you only get one "choice" and they hide their algorithms from you.