Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/BuyFromEU/comments/1quso40/european_reddit_alternative_piefed_users_surge/o3cfxy9/

Also found in a !fedibridge@lemmy.dbzer0.com post by @biltong@piefed.co.za : https://piefed.co.za/c/fedibridge/p/22233/post-on-r-buyfromeu-on-the-recent-surge-of-users-to-piefed

I like the way Voyager does it:

https://vger.app/profile

DeltaChat also has a very easy onboarding process: you just put your name, and that's it. The app creates the password in the background and allows you to switch servers easily. That really helps with onboarding new joiners.

Piefed.zip could be a nice default choice. If there are others you see, feel free to suggest.

I'm afraid that icankillpenguins might be right. That most people don't really know what a server is, so when asked to pick one they freeze

My thoughts, numbered only for potential referencing

1. I guess for now it could be managed by hand which server they get routed to. But that's not an ideal solution IMO
2. I think that idea of checking response speeds is a good idea
3. keeping option to read the instance's description and choose another one is a good idea
4. theoretically, joining a general instance vs an opinionated one might not work for those that are not opinionated or are opinionated the other way. So I think it should be discussed if instances should be able to mark themselves as general or opinionated and the initial choice be from among the general ones
5. it would be a good idea to somehow rotate between proposed instances based on MAU or some other metric

I think the "it doesn't matter which server you pick" default reply should also be done away with, because it does matter. However, like e-mail, it allows you to communicate with every other server (unless you're in a server that's been widely banned for reasons) and can be online while other servers aren't.

maybe like p2p/torrent? prioritise based on some mathematical equation involving bandwidth, users and server stability

if this means a few big pro run servers end up taking the dominant share is this really a bad thing so long as other servers are available?

I'm an European so I shouldn't agree I guess but I do. There should be a basic explanation on why a server has to be picked and having a "recommended" choice to pick could ease people in.

I think there should be a review page for instances that allows comments. That would help immensely. The person reviewing has to have been, or is currently a subscriber and it's listed how long. The longer, the higher the review.

We should add a button that says "I don't care, choose for me" that chooses a random server. Some of them will end up on Chinese Piefed, but most will be happy with their choice, and hopefully we can give the other two buttons good names that help people choose.

"It's like email" should lead, because it's not like reddit, and people have a general understanding of how email works - that it is decentralized, even if they don't know that word.

Mastodon is working on addressing this on their side, by trying to recommend instances geographically close to the user. Perhaps a similar process could be used here?

Something like that could be a good place to utilize "trusted instances." So, instead of just choosing a random instance of all of the piefediverse, it chooses a random trusted instance.

The feedback in this thread overall has been helpful.

Judging by the discussion OP links to the text should probably read something like "I don't understand the question, just sign me up".

And those users need to be signed up to the site they are currently on, because that's where they will return to to sign in later on. If you forward them somewhere else they'll have no idea what's going on.

It's incredible how terrifying the prospect of a choice can apparently be to people who have grown up without any.

I think parts of this could be addressed through design, by making the option to sign up for the current instance a little bit more visible on the sign up page.

It could maybe also link a little information about why one should consider signing up elsewhere, which could also be the place to document things like speed and reliability.

I signed up a minute ago, and I was so confused (still am, tbh). But luckily there was the button "I dont know, help" me, which scrolled down a centimeter, which was actually not that helpful :D

It should just default to the last instance cm0002 commented from.

The fediseer can help here both with the trusted instances and with finding servers based on tags

even way back when there were less and people asked about people you blocked it was like. well half of them are alternates of one account so should really just be counted as one.

I really don't get folks that can't handle choosing something. I kinda feel I may be happier long term with the fediverse if that keeps them from signing up and engaging in it. Sorta of a you must be this tall to ride. You must be this competent to engage.

If they are too stubborn or ignorant to choose a server they should stay away IMO. I don't want another reddit.

https://lawsofux.com/choice-overload/

Trusted instances would have to be set on an instance by instance basis else the old accusations would come out of preloading bias.

This would also require many instances to set out in detail their location, focus etc and have a category system that recognises that.

This is already the case. Each instance sets their own trusted instances. There are no instances trusted by default. In /admin/instances if you click edit in an instance's row, then you can check the box that it is a trusted instance. Also, these are one-sided relationships. Instance A can mark Instance B as trusted, but the converse is not required.

Sorry, but some of the people in that thread arguing about federation (something they still don't understand) are not interested in finding out how it works.

You could literally make them an account on piefed.social, and they would still be confused on account of all of the communities and usernames from different servers.

I truly think it's best to not put too much stock in one obstinate user arguing about it when 10 others quietly sign up and try it out with no hand-holding needed.

PieFed.zip would make an excellent default (as long as the admins are okay with such).

Later, additional work could be done as people are suggesting - picking based on user ping, weighted by things like overall stability (itself influenced by aspects such as newness), and with a trusted filter to avoid bad actors - but we don't seem really close to a need for that, I would guess, with the current levels of traffic? (It currently reports having only 164 MAUs, compared to PieFed.social's 1775 and PieFed.ca's 601.)

If PieFed.zip starts to become overwhelmed (although lemmy.zip never did? despite it being like the #5 instance with multiple thousands of MAUs, see https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/list and then the sidebar of https://lemmynsfw.com/ making it the real #2 despite not showing on the former list), then we could pick another instance to recommend as the default.

I suppose the main question, besides whether PieFed.zip's admins are okay with this, is whether other instances would feel unfairly discriminated against? The other chief alternative, at least if the goal is to entice users from Reddit specifically, might be PieFed.world, although there are only 4 Topic areas listed at https://piefed.world/topics (and until recently I thought there were none) so I wonder how ready they would be for an influx if it were to happen immediately. Feddit.online gives me pause to see "Stability: Medium", others such as PieFed.ca are more regional, quokk.au and Blåhaj PieFed etc. are more topical than general-purpose, and so on.

So that is why I think PieFed.zip seems a nearly unquestioned winner for now (though PieFed.world and Feddit.online might become more ready very soon), and then perhaps additional filters could be added at the top, to aid in picking e.g. regional or topical themed instances, like a series of questions asked of the user rather than having to simply read through the listing one by one.

Also, yeah remove the unhelpful I don't know help me button, and I would add an explicit acknowledgement that those instances are sorted by ping? It really helps to know that one detail!! (Especially if someone is using a proxy, they may want to change those settings in such case.)

Edit: another thought, perhaps replace the icons that are not explained with more standardized and immediately recognizeable indicators, such as 2 green up arrows for rocketship 🚀, 1 up arrow for lightning bolt ⚡, etc.

There is definitely some bad faith among a few of those commenters.

However, we should probably try to still improve the signup process. As I said in the OP, Voyager's works already better, and that's a Fediverse app.

Sometimes the concern is not to look foolish. There used to be a motto: "Lurk More". Meaning, before you join or post you should watch and learn for a while.

One user in particular. And nothing will ever satisfy them.

"I don't want a solution. I just want to be mad" if you are familiar with that mini comic

I just skimmed through the whole thread. That one user was the most vocal, but there were dozens of other people making similar comments.

We all have families that are not tech-savvy. My sister or my parents can use email just fine because the onboarding was easy, with defaults values that can just be used by most of the users without them having to make any choice.

I used Voyager's as an example, but DeltaChat works the same: you just put your name, and then you can start chatting. And it's federated and self-hostable, but it just hides it by default to make the sign up process easy

https://join-lemmy.org/instances has exactly that.

As showed in the OP, Lemmy.zip is already the default for Voyager

Well you made a good decision! If you still need help, look here:

• !newtolemmy@lemmy.ca
• !piefed_help@piefed.social

I chose the first one on the list because I had no idea. Then, a month later, it shut down and I had to remake my account.

Also !newcomers@piefed.zip

I was gonna say: if you still have questions after that, then just @Blaze@piefed.zip

And if you have a language issue, !languagesettings@lemmy.zip

The Fediverse doesn't need to optimise for appealing to the lowest common denominator.

The default choice is whatever instance you're currently on.

From https://piefed.social/auth/instance_chooser:

"I don't know, help me" scrolls you down to look at the instances (about 1cm, lol). I'm sure THAT could be more helpful!

I like the way that Voyager handles that as well, although one note there could be to change that from Lemmy.zip to PieFed.zip offering a smoother introduction for new joiners to the Threadiverse? (But that would be perhaps a post in the Voyager community !voyagerapp@lemmy.world rather than here.)

But also, I thought you were asking - and even if not then I am still suggesting - that perhaps we can borrow that same UX onboarding path by recommending PieFed.zip as a default on the webpage at https://piefed.social/auth/instance_chooser? Like, replace the unhelpful "I don’t know help me button" with one that says more simply "Join PieFed.zip".

Your second paragraph is correct. I feel like having a "Sign me up on Piefed.zip" default button would drastically improve the workflow.

Maybe the default join should be bigger, and leave the other options for people who really want to have a look.

Actually, now that I think about it, and based on the Voyager screenshot above, maybe it should be something like

• Big visible button "Join CurrentServer"
• Less visible button "Pick another server"

And then only if people pick the second option, then then list appears.

That would make it less confusing for new joiners (they would just go the default path), and still gives people the option to look around.

I work in design and animation, is there somewhere I could contact directly about helping in terms of design and Ui?

Yes, I agree

I’ve just joined up and was looking for a Reddit alternative for sometime, so was delighted to hear of an EU one. But immediately I was confused about the platform, how it works, in all honesty it’s still not clear.

I think good design should be simple, clear, and then it is powerful.

PieFed has its own chat rooms on Zulip. You can log in there with your piefed.social credentials.

I guess https://codeberg.org/rimu/pyfedi

I for one value a bit of a barrier to entry on my social media. It's not like new users are being tasked with anything difficult. It ensures the community members here are, at the very least, literate.

@rimu@piefed.social and @wjs018@piefed.social are the main devs.

As someone else pointed out, Zulip is the place to chat

If you can code, the repo is below.

Great.

I’m not a coder, it’s the design interface, graphics, usability, layout that sort of stuff.

What we mostly need is a front end dev.

Everybody kind of knows that the current interface is not ideal, but until we get someone able to code a better one, there won't be much change unfortunately.

Also FYI there are other front-ends available such as https://blorpblorp.xyz/home / or https://vger.app/posts/piefed.social/all

Ok, great, good to hear.

I do know someone who is a coder, and I will speak to him. I had asked him about Reddit, and what would be involved in creating an alternative.