"Enable Toxic Mode"... lmfao!

My discussions since joining Lemmy & dbzer0 specifically are so much higher quality than when I used Reddit. People aren't calling each other stupid, and real discussions seem to be had from both sides of different topics. Maybe the instance I'm in is just well-moderated but I can't see how this community could be considered toxic or put on a blacklist by anyone other than those who are ignorant and judge books by their covers.

Some scary words for Patrick (cover your eyes): Anarchy! Transgender! Leftist! LGBT! Equality!

Can't believe we lost PugJesus over some stupid vote rationing bullshit.

There's a really good reason why the fediverse is designed with public mod logs, and I imagine the motivation for creating these tools for blocking/hiding/burying content on the frontend is to get around the accountability that public moderation logs enable.

I imagine that is also why some of the first communities AP blocked were mod abuse forums.

As ever, scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds.

Their is a self righteousness and petty authoritarianism that comes with a perceived sense of ownership over a community, platform, or project. In many ways we're reenacting the same motions which ended up destroying reddit as a community platform, one which was built through the organic involvement and voluntary contributions of millions.

I've always seen Lemmy as the "2.0" experiment to identify and improvement upon the issues associated with the Reddit type long form threaded discussion platform so many of us prefer. And it's been extremely useful in that we continue to understand where the real friction points are in growing these kinds of communities. Examples like @Jordon@kbin.social editorially banning @return2ozma@lemmy.world for explicitly political reasons at critical moments during a highly visible political campaign, this shadow ban list, pretty much every moderator action that squid ever took, these secretive matrix chats behind closed doors. The "3.0" version of whatever this has needs far better tools to support moderators, but also to hold moderation and moderators accountable and to give the ability for community to replace them as needed. Also, the ability to merge or fork communities and to migrate communities or accounts from instance to instance. Its simply unacceptable to do some of these activities and many of them while questionable at the time, have in retrospect turned out to be quite nefarious and destructive to the overall project.

Migration is definitely one thing holding us back, I think. While migrating your user to another instance would be nice, community migration is absolutely critical. We absolutely need to be able to move a community to another instance and have all the followers/subscribers automatically carry over. So many small communities have suffered and languished after moves, and it also ultimately drove off PugJesus in a way.

From his server, where only he has control.

OK, that's fucked up. Man, I wanted to believe the dev because I legitimately understand the problem he's trying to face, but being so opaque about how it's handled is not OK.

Honestly, it doesn't reflect well on these kinds of projects that this is not the first such case. I remember the controversy when it was found Lemmy had a hardcoded blocklist and the dev refused to remove it for the longest time.

Do you mean Lemmy's hard-coded slur word filter? Yes fortunately that was removed. I find it the height of irony how the Alternative Facts crowd keeps blaming PieFed for having hard-coded instance filters, which it does NOT do, while also shilling for Lemmy doing the same thing. But hey, Russia invaded Ukraine, you know? Whereas if you listen to certain people's ah... uh... "alternative perspective on the matter"... then it was actually the other way around!! (Except again, it was NOT!!) So there's nothing you can do about that except not feed the trolls the attention that they so desperately crave.

Or you might mean instead Lemmy's choice to hard-code Lemmy.ml as the source of truth as to what communities are allowed to be recommended to a new instance just starting up. Not a neutral 3rd party webpage or service, but basically if that specific instance has banned it, then it does not exist in the form of acknowledgement to new instances. This also is something that they blame PieFed for doing, which here too it does NOT, whereas Lemmy truly did. Or rather, tbf came very close to almost doing - I think that decision was rolled back soon enough that it did not even make it into the official released codebase, the outcry & pushback was already too high maybe? It still exists iirc as something that now can be opted out of by modifying a configuration setting to use some alternate source of truth, though with Lemmy.ml still the default setting rather than a neutral 3rd party service.

I would think if Lemmy had actual hard-coded (instance) blocklists, that must have been like... at least four years ago?

Truly, Lemmy has gotten better and less opinionated over time - still not perfect (see attempt described in 2nd paragraph above), but better.

While PieFed unfortunately is getting more opinionated over time. Enough even to sabotage all hopes that it will be useful for both serious discussions a la Mastodon plus also funny meme scrolling a la Reddit & Lemmy. See the PugJesus incident. Perhaps this was inevitable? It began as a general-purpose software, but increasingly Rimu (while seemingly being burnt out from fighting against the tankies of Lemmy) looks to want to take on the next steps of remodeling the very underlying nature of social media itself. But... nobody is ready for that just yet, the subscriber numbers simply are not there, and damnit some of us actually DO want to look at funny cat photos and videos!!! (As well as a great discussion too.) More to the point, the roll-out was spectacularly poorly handled, as even admin teams of multiple instances cited having no knowledge of what was going on, even on their own machines after updating the software but then being surprised at the differences in how it handled things (to their credit, the ones that I heard of each handled the situation very quickly and quite professionally).

So yeah, I'm disturbed by the progressive death of the Threadiverse as our numbers keep falling (55k Monthly Active Users at our peak, down to ~35k lately iirc), and then all the infighting pushes people away still further, especially those least willing to read about the details of each incident.

It's there but the instance I'm on already announced it'll shut it off due to the whole drama. Oh well ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I meant the slur filter. Honestly, I hadn't heard about the other issues - but having seen what I've seen of Dessalines, I'm not really surprised.

Goddammit, I just want to enjoy some social media without the enshittifacation bullshit. And I know many people in my life who would also be interested - but I can't in good faith recommend this in the current state. Why does it have to be so hard...

If anything us regex bans are the majority

Probably gave up on doing it the other way

This has been hands-down some of the best drama I’ve seen on the Fediverse. I assume there’s some sick part of my brain that just loves it when someone doubles down on a bad decision.

No one complained about all the kids I raped until they knew about it! - Trump

Hmm,

"https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/fediverse_vs_disinfo",
"https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/flippanarchy",
"https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/gestapo_usa",
"https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/leftymemes",
"https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/libjerk",
"https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/politicalmemes",
"https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/politics",

Ha! What a white knighting tool bag

Have you tried this one?

Did I do something wrong? Am I not cool enough? Why didn't I make the list? :'(

They also specifically stated they do not support transphobia

Maybe the truth is more nuanced than someone you hate is a fascist

That post max crash out. Homie included a way to turn it off like a company hiding the cancel subscription options and expected everyone to love it. Like bro if you want to filter everything out thats what your block list is for. Also, he plainly did not mention why it was obfuscated to such a degree and acted like it showed you everything.

Literally every person that I've ever recommended this space to irl has outright chided me for having done so. And eventually I saw that they were correct to have done so.

It did not help that (1) a Google search (remember, I'm talking to mainstream normies here, okay?) for "Lemmy" at that time returned Lemmy.ml (nowadays it shows Lemmy.world iirc, but a year or so ago it behaved differently), (2) the default sort for Lemmy.ml is different than most instances, and instead of showing Global it shows only Local, (3) combine this with fluctuations that seems to occur just before any Western election and you get a feed that is very different from what 99% of us here experience for ourselves. Unfiltered Lemmy in this manner is truly bOtH sIdEs SaMe bullshit (of the kind that lets just say discouraged voting for Kamala Harris), and virtually nothing else (again, showing LOCAL rather than GLOBAL on Lemmy.ml).

Mainstream non-technical normal folks are never going to come over to "Lemmy". It simply has too much historical baggage - and this on top of the continued toxicity still existing in the present. Just one conversation with a hexbear user... by a white, Christian, straight, centrist, "normal" (/mainstream) person is enough to send most of them back to Reddit (or sometimes Bluesky). Whereupon they bitterly complain about us here, warning others against making the same mistake. Oh and yeah they take their OC with them.

Some even stuck around here for a LONG time - like a year or more. Before they too succumbed and went back. I don't even blame them, and presume that when (not even an "if" in my mind) Donald Trump refuses to step down and this place becomes an absolute shitstorm I am very likely to do the same. Tiny Reddit subs are not the same as the large ones, whereas there are virtually no tiny ones here - at least, not enough to take more than 5 minutes a day to fully catch up on.

Incels will never learn that no means NO, rather than that they simply need to push forward even harder. At which point the issue wraps back around to us, who thereby have to answer what we will actually DO about it.

You do realize by virtue of having a blahaj account, admiral considers you one of these violent extremist leftists he shadowbans, right? You're literally going to bat for your own oppressor right now.

Fascists won't consider you one of the "good ones" no matter how much you defend them, just some food for thought.

I'm not a fan of the slur filter but all it does is replace slurs with removed, which is different then hiding entire posts/users/communities.

'Great Value Palantir'

I'm in stiches, hahaha!

I call people on reddit stupid all the time, but that's because there are genuinely a lot of stupid people on reddit who appear to be ignorant of their predicament. Unfortunately I only have so much time in a day so the vast majority of stupid redditors carry on blissfully unaware.

Don’t forget to advocate for the Balkanization of the United States so that all of our political problems can be magically solved and I get to bring my passport and go through customs to cross the militarized Mississippi River.

I disagree with the actions of the person discussed, but i am not going to call them fascist because of something that maybe possibly kinda could make them transphobic, but has multiple possible explanations

A transphobic fascist wouldnt mention that they prohibit transphobia, at best "forget" to mention it

Not everything that is bad is fascist

And he called it the toxic filter. Like, dudes higher on his own farts than I am on mine. That is hard

I finally found myself but I honestly feel like this is a list of frequent users more than anything.

no no. he "compressed it for efficiency" /s

but really, he said that.

fucking dumbass.

I like to make poop jokes

@ptz@dubvee.org is who you want.

May he always find a pebble in his shoe.

I think a merge/fork/subscribe system would also be critical and could revolutionize somethings.

Say you have a community for dirt biking, but it's not big and doesn't have traction, you can merge it into maybe 'motorcycles' till a critical mass for 'dirtbiking' is met. Its really one of the issues we faced early, and part of it is that the current design is for each instance to be a self contained replacement to reddit.

Blocking lemmy.ml also makes using the site a much less abrasive experience.

yeah but you were given that choice. this prick just stole the choice from thousands of users and whined about being called out.

Completely agree. There's plenty of issues everywhere, but they're not all fascist and fascism isn't the cause of every issue. To ascribe everything to fascism is simultaneously boiling things down to black and white thinking and dilutes the meaning of fascism.

do people use this platform for something else?

Catching up in the latest bean and moth related memes. I'm just surprised we don't have any memes around moths circling beans.

when I get banned, even temp banned, for bogus shit nobody else gets banned for I just block the community.

I've lost count of how many communities I was active in that that happened in.

heavy mods silence the most active users in a community and it stagnates.

I dunno, seems like ‘but I have a black friend’ or ‘I’m not racist but…’ energy, if they’re dumb enough to think blahaj of all places is a terrorist organization…

Its an option. I do consider it to be the easy option.

Not magic, just bringing back execution for treason, bribery, and betraying the people of your electorate. Simple stuff.

You might have missed the troubles, a period when squid was still active and being anti Zionist could and would get you banned across whole instances where pointing out that Joe Biden was clearly losing in their race to be president would result in a several week ban for some of the most important and critical members of the community. The petty authoritarianism really can't be dismissed, and it's probably the most important issue facing the project currently.

Wow we're the Australia of forums!

Obfuscated? Did you look at the code? It's in a file called "blacklist" with a GUI option to turn it off and it has some funny comments inside. It wasn't even encoded it's literally plain text

Edit: perhaps I saw a fork with the decoded list; either way I'm sorry for spreading misinformation looks like I'm totally wrong.

The option to turn it off doesn't turn off THAT blacklist

There exist other reason they could consider blahaj bad

Not good reasons though

He would have got away with it too if it wasn't for those meddling Karens

"I've got four years good conduct I have - "

"No, that was four years Not Found Out", said Vimes. "Clear off."

does any of this tesseract shit matter if I'm using Voyager? I can't even find the "toxic mode" button that gasbag is yelling about.