Cross-posted from "FYI: StarTrek.website is no longer federating with Lemmy.dbzer0.com" by @Admin@startrek.website in !quarks@startrek.website

Crossposting here since y'all won't be able to see it now that they've defederated us.

If you're not familiar with how Lemmy/the Fediverse works, basically everything you read at StarTrek.website is hosted by us, even if the content originated elsewhere. That means we are responsible for everything here and we have to decide if we are comfortable boosting content from other instances.

If you're curious, the final straw here was learning that db0 explicitly allows hosting discussions about hurting people, which needless to say goes against our instance values and we simply don't have the manpower to moderate that volume of content incoming from their server to a degree that we feel meets our quality standards, which left defederating as the only viable option.

In keeping in line with past trends we're announcing this because is is a larger instance and don't want to leave any of the crew confused as to why something may be missing.

I don't consider this a massive loss tbh. We already have !Risa@lemmy.dbzer0.com and !tenforward@lemmy.world was already more active than their whole instance. And I'm sure @Stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.com can provide the noxious lore of their instance if you're interested. The only loss would be not having members such as @Kirk@startrek.website running around running interference for DDoSers like @ptz@dubvee.org. Also Admiral Patrick of the Tesseract fame, was also an admin on their instance iirc so this is a clear retaliation as far as I'm concerned, even though we didn't actually do anything to AP.

But also

db0 explicitly allows hosting discussions about hurting people

What the fuck does this even mean? Can someone ask for an example? Is this about Luigi? IDFK...

PS: Will this drama season never end? I want my free time back >_<

db0 explicitly allows hosting discussions about hurting people

Huh? Since when? Lol.

Don’t think DB0 as a whole ever allowed such a thing. We as an instance are heavily against hurting others (I mean we are against racism, hatred, Zionism, Nazism… you name it).

The discussion of Luigi is one that’s is actually needed to be had. The guy did something wrong, yes. But he had all the reasons for it. The industry hurts (and kills) thousands of people just for their profit. Just once they got the “favor” returned.

Anyway, I have no idea what that particular instance is. So won’t be missing it either.

Uhh I'm fairly certain that Kirk isn't running interference for Patrick and ptz. All three are the same sad and pathetic guy, from what I understand.

Institution violence is fine and dandy apparently, because capitalism, but violence against your oppressors ... no way man!

What a weird stance to take when the internet is full of people talking about wishing death on the fat orange monkey and no one bats an eye but something obscure on this instance gets their panties in a bunch.

It is always disappointing. Condoning violence is never acceptable. Unfortunately for us, news after new after news article, we see those who protest peaceful through speech have senseless violence imposed on them. They did not ask to be murdered.

The ones that asked, have 24/7 news coverage. But it's okay because they say "it's concerning".

So now that some guy had enough and imposes justice that the law could never give. Through his actions paid one life to save hundreds?

True, it shouldn't have come to that. True, the soulless husk in a thousand dollar tie should've been put to prison. But violence is the speech of the oppressed who see no other way to fight back.

It's just okay to kill through oppression, because it's "official", "legal" and "their fault".

Luigi is not a hero through the man he allegedly killed. He is a hero because he represents the fury of the people.

In our side, we welcome discussion on solving the problems that we hear about on a daily basis. But turning a blind eye while people are butchered right in the open will not help anyone.

As long as the Fediverse has human users there will be drama.

I ranted about this in another thread some, but I’m with startrek.website here.

I almost switched to db0 when I first found Lemmy.world and joined it; you guys seemed, ideologically, closest to me. I loved the vibe.

Communities about Anarchism, Generative AI, Copylefts, Neurodivergence, Filesharing, and Free Software. (And Math!) Follow the Anarchist Code of Conduct and honor the Disengage Rule. Don’t be shitty to each other. Keep it SFW. Obey the spirit of The Golden Rules. Fuck around and find out.

This is me. Every word. I love this.

…But holy hell.

The bar for calling for explicit violence is basically zero, as long as the target fits the instance’s views. And I’ve watched the admin come in and personally validate that policy in the threads in question.

I wouldn’t want to touch this instance, either.

Again, I’m otherwise sympathetic to everything about this instance, yet I think I’d vote for Lemmy.world to defederate from db0 if it ever comes up.

And I’m not here to debate how I’m apparently not antifascist enough, or shoot down accusations that I’m a pacifist, or whatever.

I’m sick of that.

And I’m clearly not moving the needle here. I’m not trying to; do what you do. I just thought I’d provide a perspective of someone who was otherwise quite attracted to this community.

Bye, felicia

Lol what are you on about mate, what calls to explicit violence? You mean defending ourselves against fascist stormtroopers? Sorry but we ain't pacifists

I'm genuinely trying to think of the last time I saw a post from startrek.website and drawing a blank.

Speaking as someone who did move from LW to db0, and then subsequently instance blocked lemmy.world and saw the instant improvement in my fediverse experience, I’m also in favor of LW defederating from everyone else.

For all the talk about AdmiralPatrick’s unstable behavior, what gets me is this obsession with “no violence!!”

What do they think Elon did with USAID or what healthcare companies do every day? Capitalism is grinding us into dust and literally destroying the planet, but when someone suggests a French solution they’re the lunatics? Bro, pull your head out.

This entire accusation revolves around an extreme extrapolation from reading the statement "We're not pacifists" in response to AdmiralPatrick's insistence that any acceptance of violence is evil, no matter the context. There is no reasonable way to see that statement and jump to "Therefore they glorify and encourage violence" without filling in a lot of blanks with assumptions.

Curiously, you're doing it with the exact same language that AdmiralPatrick used, where the exact nature of the targets of the "instance's views" aren't specified.

Those guys are killing you by taking away the things you need to live. That's way different than shooting you! /s

And I’m not here to debate how I’m apparently not antifascist enough

Then why did you bring it up? And you brought it up the first time too.

I'm just citing my own personal observations interacting with the db0 community. The calls for violance and death were not subtle.

It has little to do with whatever happened to tesseract; I noticed this trend before that, but all that controversy just bubbled it to the top of my conscious (as it seems to have with that startrek community).

Curiously, you’re doing it with the exact same language that AdmiralPatrick used, where the exact nature of the targets of the “instance’s views” are.

If you're accusing me of being AdmiralPatrick or related to them, I don't really know how to respond to that. But I'm not, and I've been on Lemmy over 2 years so far.

Because when I bring this up, I get replies calling me a fascist sympathizer, and the whole thread barrels towards Godwin's law.

You can indulge in that all you want, again, if you wish. I'm not interested in that rabbit hole.

To be clear, I'm not a fan of LW either. I've got communities blocked there, and I'm still considering leaving.

Not s big deal witht that very small very specific topic

You can indulge in that all you want, again

I didn't call you a fascist sympathizer. I gave you the mildest pushback that your actions and beliefs might be inconsistent.

Unfortunately people who don't know better other than the subject matter might make accounts there and not know what they're missing.

No, I'm saying that you're sharing the same flawed tactic: vaguely referencing something that sounds bad but could be easily explicable with the context provided. It's especially not a great way to go about it right now after Admiral Patrick used it to make accusations that don't hold up to scrutiny about more than just the dbzero instance, but also blahaj.zone and its admins.

Like what's the threshold for "calls of violence and death" here? You also reinforced Admiral Patrick's idea that it was acceptable only towards people the instance's admin agreed with. So what are the specific details? Who were these calls for violence and death towards? How intense were they? Are we talking about "Punch Nazis" or "Kill all brown people"? Both are calls for violence and death but are still very different.

Still zero examples though, why are you so reluctant to give one?

db0 explicitly allows hosting discussions about hurting people

I mean if discussing how to defend yourself from capitalist / fasch / nazi opression counts as "hurting people", I guess we could take that as a badge of honour? We don't owe to our oppressors to put their welfare above ours!

Because when I bring this up, I get replies calling me a fascist sympathizer

If it whines like a duck and it blames violence on the oppressed like a duck... then at least that means that duck is capable of thinking, and should get to that.

Didn't this have something to do with the tesseract drama? I think that guy has it out for the anarchists.

Literally every country I know of has a military. Police carry weapons. Sometimes people need to physically defend others. Violence ia culturally accepted everywhere. You should see the rampant soldier worship in the US.

What fanatasy world exists where there is never a reason for violence?

This is some stupid smear campaign. Examples or they can fuck off.

There are a lot of people questioning their decision. The admin refuses to provide proof.

Good riddens. 🤷‍♂️

I tried blocking them for a while and there were only a few subscriptions I couldn't get. Defederating would be an exposure issue, though.

Almost like there isn't a reason just spite or pettiness.

Especially as the reasoning of extra moderation needed would only be on the db0 side unless those admins of startrek wanted to curate what federates

Admiral "the cunt" Patrick shitting in his own pants again.

the tesseract guy was also an admin on startrek.website and he has it out for anyone left of him like the piefed creator does.

we have strict rules about linking to other instances with the intent of shaming someone or influencing their policy

That sounds like this is retaliatory action for db0 calling out AP for being a shitlord and demanding the censorship gets rolled back in Tesseract.

After all, db0 shamed and tried to influence policy for a turd who wanted to control what their users could even see.

(Pretty sure that's the joke)

Yes. db0 posted about the blocklist after updating Tesseract for the dbzero instance, basically putting it on blast (as they should have).

The dev also turned their home page into a ddos enabler, using visitor browsers to send 2000 requests to the dbzero instance.

Odds are good that this same person was also running the st.w instance.

The idea is they defederate from everyone and finally get the private FaceBook group echo-chamber they clearly desire. Then it's not an exposure issue for the rest of us outside their walled garden.

(fair enough, it's hard to tell sometimes)

What do you mean? Violence is acceptable or even good in many cases.

What do you call it when someone hurts or damages an attacking person until they stop?

Violence and the capacity to direct it underpins all power in society for good and ill. If you are not protected by it then you are vulnerable to anyone who is willing to use it. Ideally you don't have to resort to violence but that doesn't mean that when you do it's bad.

If you’re curious, the final straw here was learning that db0 explicitly allows hosting discussions about hurting people

Then why the fuck are you here? You can leave whenever you want.

I knew the story wouldn't end with him taking down his own instance. Either it was going to be brought back or he had another one.

I'm sure that admin is Admiral Patrick's alt. There are signs that they share the same sentiment as him. I kind of knew he wasn't going to just leave the Fediverse entirely.

Still waiting for examples.

You get called a fascist sympathizer for being one. Try harder.

Scratch a liberal, and a fascist bleeds. And my family has a history of bashing fascists. I'm just partaking in my family tradition.

Can you give any examples? Because this sounds suspiciously like the post in quarks where an accusation was made, and the evidence is “I’m not willing to provide examples because it goes against my principles.”