That also includes simping Putin and Xi.

The character depicted at the bottom isn't the government or mainstream media, it's the "independent thinker"

Social media is today's mass/mainstream media. Capitalist imperialists own both that and the traditional channels. They decide the message in both. Being hostile "officially" and contradicting that algorithmically is a choice

this is so ambiguous, because it’s making fun of the far right, because Donald Trump was accused of getting help from “Russians” when the libs decided to start a new Cold War. but also is attacking the far left, which is against imperial overreach and proxy wars against Russia.

the independent thinker is just someone who thinks hating Russia is dumb and goes out of their way to understand a “taboo” nation the West wants to destroy. On the right these people flock to Trump, Tucker Carlson, and Steve Bannon’s camp. on the left they’re actually independent and lack a political movement. they listen to podcasts like Chapo Trap House and maybe are involved with the DSA.

Yeah, just trying to understand. You are literally the one pictured in the meme. You've spouted enough Russian disinfo that I already tagged you for it months ago.

but also is attacking the far left, which is against imperial overreach and proxy wars against Russia.

The far left is against imperialism full stop, that includes Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Russia, China, the US, the EU are imperial entities with imperial interests. None of them and non of their propaganda outlets care about the Ukrainian people.

Given that, it’s perfectly realistic that the US willingly engineered a situation where conflict was inevitable.

If you think the US wanted Ukraine in NATO for the good of the Ukrainian people, you’re delusional.

If you think the US invested millions in pro western „news outlets“ in Ukraine for the good of the Ukrainian peoples, you’re delusional.

Just as delusional as those that think Russia invaded Ukraine to liberate its people.

Instead of trusting US imperialism, like a simp, they're sucking straight from the teat of Russian imperialism instead, like a Chad. Is the meme. How are you reading it?

When people say Russia, do they include their government? Because the Russian government can fuck off alongside any government. I consider myself far left and I refuse to simp for any government or its leaders. Now if we’re talking about the Russian and Chinese working class, I’ll always support them.

Literal Russian propaganda.

Putin claimed that Ukraine had been committing genocide against Russian speakers in the region; that Ukraine's government were neo-Nazis under Western control; that Ukraine was developing nuclear weapons; and that NATO was building up military infrastructure in Ukraine, threatening Russia.

Putin said that Russia was acting in self-defense, that its goal was the "demilitarization and denazification" of Ukraine, and claimed that Russia had no plans to occupy Ukrainian land. He threatened severe consequences for any country that intervened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Putin_speech_on_invading_Ukraine

No government can wage a war for twelve years against wishes of their own population.

What does imperialism mean to you?

Any independent thinker should indeed seek to critically understand multiple perspectives, yes. Although even just being able to formulate perspectives of other countries, or being willing to challenge blatant misinformation will get you accused of being an imperialist by left-posturing Western chauvanists.

You can make the argument for Russia but I really don't understand how China, a country that has been at peace for over 40 years and which is developing an alternative economic sphere such that countries are not forced to accept whatever conditions the West imposes, could possibly be considered "imperialist." I'm guessing people will just be like, "Well what if they invaded Taiwan? The things happening purely in my imagination prove China bad."

Maga has been on a IV drip from known Russian assets for a minute

Had me in the first half, ngl.

https://www.cfr.org/global-conflict-tracker/conflict/territorial-disputes-south-china-sea

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Taiwan

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/south-korea-expressed-concern-over-chinese-structure-disputed-area-sea-2025-04-24/

Ask literally any average Southeast Asian citizen about China’s influence on their country, and you’ll get a sense of Chinese imperialist ambitions.

I’m brushing over the long history of Han ethnic expansionism and the literal war with communist Vietnam over their supposed vassal-state of Cambodia.

Edit: Read up on the Chinese Ethnic Unity Law:
https://www.chinalawtranslate.com/en/ethnic-unity-and-progress-law/

Whom will likely benefit the most:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_China

Minor border disputes are not imperialism.

I’m brushing over the long history of Han ethnic expansionism

Projection.

and the literal war with communist Vietnam

Over 40 years ago lol. If the US had been at peace since Vietnam, I'd have very different opinions about it.

I'm so glad nobody cares when the US does "minor border disputes" the way they care about when China does it.

Oh wait...

Holy fucking victim blaming, batman.

"Ukraine deserved it" is surely one of the takes of all time.

Glad to know you can be ignored

https://www.britannica.com/topic/imperialism

imperialism, state policy, practice, or advocacy of extending power and dominion, especially by direct territorial acquisition or by gaining political and economic control of other areas

Bruh can’t even read a dictionary, lmao.

Projection

Lmao, who do you even think I am?

The US is bad too. If you’re going to be anti-imperialist then you need to be against all imperialism and not just the one you were told to hate.

The vitriol toward defending China in this second response, at any cost, gives you away.

How are you defining China as imperialist? Does China engage in global politics? Yes. Do they engage with global Capital? Yes. Do they use soft power to achieve nationalist aims in national conflicts? Sometimes. Are they a hegemon? Depends how you define hegemony, but its a fair assessment.

Do they use their military might to spread their influence and national agenda? No. Do they have Military bases in other countries? No (Russia has like 12, USA has like 130). Do they try to expand their territory? They engage in border conflicts and Taiwan is contentious, but mostly no.

Imperialism is using military might to establish economic dominance or neocolonialism, to establish economic monopolies and an imperialists friendly ruling class in a foreign country. Influencing another country can be regarded as hegemony, depending on the definition of hegemony being used, and imperial countries are hegemonic. But hegemony is soft power, imperialism is hard, direct domination. Hegemony is not imperialism.

Looking back over your comment, and realizing you also consider the EU as imperial, I think you're confusing hegemony, in an IR/sociological context, for imperialism. EU is not imperialist. They are a function of like global capitalism, which is imperialist, but EU is not imperialist.

imperialism, state policy, practice, or advocacy of extending power and dominion, especially by direct territorial acquisition or by gaining political and economic control of other areas

That's still not the same as minor border disputes.

The US is bad too. If you’re going to be anti-imperialist then you need to be against all imperialism and not just the one you were told to hate.

Yes, decades long occupations, minor border clashes, both equally bad and equally requiring staunch opposition. You gonna go full "white lives matter" next? Or can we agree that focusing on the much, much bigger problem should be the priority?

The vitriol toward defending China in this second response, at any cost, gives you away.

"Gives me away" as what? If you're going to accuse me of something, say it to my face.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Taiwan

More complicated than what most people think considering the history of Taiwan. Imagine if fascist in your country seized a region via ethnic cleansing and then created a break away state. Would your country be happy to recognize it as an independent nation? The only thing that complicates this is they eventually established a somewhat democratic government, after +40 years of violent authoritarianism.

Ask literally any average Southeast Asian citizen about China’s influence on their country, and you’ll get a sense of Chinese imperialist ambitions.

Eh..... Comparatively I think you would hear worse if you asked them about western ambitions.

China is a superpower, you don't get to that status without flexing that power. The reality is that every superpower in history regardless of what social economic system they utilize has to compete with an established hegemony to upset the status quo. You can label that as imperialism if you want However that opens the debate on how we quantify imperialism, and the only real way to do that is by comparison.

Compared to the leading superpower I'd hardly say their activity in their own backyard really can't be compared to what the US is currently doing to control a waterway right now.

I’m brushing over the long history of Han ethnic expansionism

I think Han chauvinism has long been an issue within China, even Mao spoke about it during his time in power. Do I think it's as dire as it's depicted in western media? No, but I do hope that the CCP takes more steps to integrate ethnic minorities into positions in higher government like the politburo. That being said, is the treatment of ethnic minorities on the same level or worse than in western nations.....? Not really, which leads me to believe that ethnic chauvinism isn't really a problem specific to any government or economic system.

war with communist Vietnam over their supposed vassal-state of Cambodia.

Which the CCP openly admits was a misguided mistake, and apparently unlike other superpowers was something they actually learned from.

So what's your opinion of the US working class?

It's when a ruler is in a military dress uniform with a tall, feathery, hat.

And proud of it. Because anyone who thinks critically, acknowledges basic, objective facts about reality, anyone who questions their own government and confronts their own presumptions and prejudices, is a "tankie" to you liberal, imperialist, chauvinists.

At least I don't have the blood of a million Middle Easterners on my hands like you do.

In this case, "propaganda" is a matter of emphasis. I think that there is a very strong case to be made that the USA supported pro EU/pro NATO forces in Ukraine, with weapons, services, and goods, during and after Maidan. This aid influenced Ukraine to join NATO which was a hard red line for Russia. There is a strong case, and historic precedence to be made that the USA pushed, or at least nudged (using aid, which made up 90% of foreign aid) Ukraine to join NATO specifically to draw Russia into a long, protracted conflict with Ukraine.

NATO is an entity that was formed to stop Soviet "spread" into Europe. So.why does it still exist after the fall of USSR? It still functions as a hostile military front against Russia. It makes sense in any context that Russia would not permit a new NATO installation in Ukraine.

Does this justify the Russian invasion of Ukraine? Fuck no. But that doesnt mean that being objective about the history is propaganda, it means the lead up to the invasion was messy, there were western and Russian elements using Ukraine to carry out their own imperial agenda. Ukraine has been incredibly vulnerable and heavily exploited for a very long time. Ukraine had the lowest standard of living during the USSR, which dropped significantly after the fall, and basically never recovered. Post USSR Russia played a role in this, as did the USA, EU, and NATO.

Propaganda does not mean "facts that don't suit my camp". Such facts may be used in propaganda, but doesn't make them false, context is everything. Being a pro-USA campist is also bad. Even if it puts you on the "side" of the victims in the invasion doesn't give you the right to disregard the USA's role in using Ukraine for their own imperialist aganda.

Edit: gonna post some links for reference
https://thewallwillfall.org/2022/04/17/retired-swiss-intelligence-officer-explains-ukraine/

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/why-john-mearsheimer-blames-the-us-for-the-crisis-in-ukraine

https://www.npr.org/2019/12/18/788874844/how-u-s-military-aid-has-helped-ukraine-since-2014

https://www.stimson.org/2022/u-s-security-assistance-to-ukraine-breaks-all-precedents/

https://jacobin.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea?s=08

France is absolutely imperialist on its own, the other EU powers are at least imperialist to the extent that they are and were directly involved in US imperialist wars. China is a different case, theoretically there is a possible future were china is the first post imperialist power. I think it’s much more likely though, that at some point they will use either military coercion, start militarily supporting „rebels“, or at some point do direct military intervention, to protect their investments abroad, the ones that they are currently building out.

Call me a cynic, but I think if China ever becomes the world hegemon, they will behave as such.

Ain't done nothing if you ain't been called a Red Tankie, so you might as well ignore it, or love the word instead!

I'm blessed with having long-time friends from various places in the world.

Support. We’re the most propagandized country in the world and need to be free of this tyrannical bullshit.

The enemy of my enemy isn't necessarily my friend, they just happen to be aligned with me in that one, single, specific enimity.

It takes a lot more to be somebody one can trust than merely sharing a single dislike.

As I read it, that meme represents people who don't actually think like this and instead whilst claiming to be skeptics blindly accept whatever they're told by those who voice dislike of one or two of the same things they do (for example, American Imperialism).

I still support worker-lead efforts. I just don’t fold to singular figures or authorities. I’ve watched people excuse abhorrent shit simply because it’s a person they otherwise like.

When people say Russia, do they include their government?

I would think that would be all they are including. regular russian civilians aren't out there making a lot of propaganda, it's all either state owned media or right-wing nationalist influencers. except for the occasional video trying to convince people that pork tongue is actually good.

Hm. I mean, thats a really good point. Now you've got me thinking about the differences between neocolonialism and hegemony, as well as the difference between the historic imperialism of EU nations, vs the role of the EU; as well as like how the national interests of a formerly imperialist country functions within the imperialism of global capital. Not sure where to start but its a very compelling line.

Re: China as global hegemon, we are all becoming Mearsheimer-ists, aren't we?

Funny you think criticism of russian propaganda equates to support for the west

Seriously. I support both Ukraine and Iran in their wars.

I mean. This isn't the clearest meme is it? Lol

i support the working people. sometimes as an expedient that means a small degree of support of national entities, but the most important thing is the freedom of the people.

Au contrare, virtually all anarchists are ultra-left.