Link: https://lemmy.ml/post/51590161

Original Post (by mod !Luminous5481@anarchist.nexus): https://lemmy.ml/post/51590161

My comment that got me banned:

Remind me which nations have their capitalists leashed and which nations are leashed by their capitalists again?

Mod's response:

China Tobacco is so powerful it prevented the CCP from instituting smoking bans for years, all because it pays for the entire Chinese military budget. get the fuck out of here with that capitalist propaganda bullshit, campist.

My response I would have posted:

What in your view is the correct alternative to "campism"?

Also, your counterexample is literally a state-owned enterprise? Doesn't sound like unleashed Capital to me.

I don't think there is any rule in the sidebar that could be stretched to justify the ban.

My final thought is:

We share the same anti-imperial goals. I think your side should consider whether you have been duped by the very state powers you live under into hating the nations that should be your greatest allies in the fight.

P.S.S.

I don't have to agree with everything China does, and I don't. I don't think they have a good tobacco policy. I think they cater too much to cultural reactionaries. I think they allowed 996/hustle culture to get out of control and aren't reining it in seemingly at all.

But if we're going to honestly talk about China we have to also address the industrial/economic "miracle", the elimination of homelessness and extreme poverty, world-leading education, and "whole process people's democracy" (and the extremely high legitimacy it has among the actual Chinese citizenry)

> AGITPROP< memes for anarchist dreams

memes that glorify states will be removed

if you post angry replies you will get made fun of

what part of agitprop anarchist memes didn't you understand? now you're gonna end up on Tankiejerk too just for being whiny about it lol

questioning the CIA narrative will get you banned

ur a CIA narrative

So inadvertently confirming that my account cannot be justifiably banned under the rules? Got it.

tankiejerk

If you want to go have a fash party at the nazi bar I won't try and stop you

the rules are made up and don't matter

If you want to go have a fash party at the nazi bar I won’t stop you

lol ok karen go report me to chairman meow or something

This is the "report", fellow traveler. The behavior of the anticommunists merely needs to be documented and shown to the fair-minded, they show their hand every time.

what better place than YPTB 🤣

Indeed

I don't even understand what the mod's position is

oh hey I just saw that. You went into an anarchist space because there was a mean meme about communism and decided to praise China.

Also rule five:

if you post angry replies you will get made fun of

Womp womp

it's a shame anarchists continue their tradition in splitting the left and preventing anything from being done, instead of uniting with other leftists who want all the good and moral things (like this fine gentlexem OP here) and taking down John Capitalism who's from USA (the only evil capitalist imperialist nation in the world)

On an unrelated note, China please give us money

So far the threatened mockery has been underwhelming to be honest.

Regarding the "anarchist space":

I don't even bother engaging with the libs, for one thing they usually put "no tankies" in the sidebar so I block the community and move on. I have found the anarchists on lemmy to be much more open to honest discussion, BUT with some of the same Western brainworms about geopolitical adversaries.

If you folks literally don't ever want to have this discussion, you too can put "no tankies" in the sidebars and myself and others will not engage in your threads.

Is that the Fediverse you want to inhabit? Seems boring to me

Well it’s not a mean meme about communism. It’s a meme about the fact that China isn’t communist.

The mod message was something like "posting capitalist apologia" if that helps

My brain is permanently stuck in a superposition unable to determine if this comment is very earnest or very sarcastic

I don't disagree with your point or POV, but you went to an anarchist comm and confronted them over their distaste for China. They're allowed to mod their comm against ML discourse. There are plenty of other spaces for MLs or left unity on these instances.

It's better to let them have their spaces then antagonize. Catch more flies with honey, etc etc

If you folks literally don’t ever want to have this discussion, you too can put “no tankies” in the sidebars and myself and others will not engage in your threads.

memes only please, serious discussion is for other comms

it's literally a comm about pissing off people who aren't anarchists, why did you think somebody who wasn't an anarchist would enjoy the content?

We don't ban the libs just for being libs on ML, they have to pull out the racism card first.

Like I said in another comment, if they don't want any engagement from anyone who disagrees with them at a worldview level that's disappointing but fine

I happen to believe that they don't want to be another DNC-pilled echo chamber but I'm certainly not going to post where I'm not wanted

There are plenty of memes on ML's meme comm that are flamebait, as we all know it generates lots of engagement

I'm not arguing with your decision to post, I'm disagreeing with the content of the meme

Why does that merit moderation action?

moderation? woah woah woah woah comrade, we don't do that authcom thoughtcrime stuff here. I just disassociated with you, giving you the freedom to seek posting opportunities elsewhere.

I will not argue with your implicit decision not to have a real discussion

The comm literally says no serious discussion in the rules.

Well this comment thread is happening in YPTB, in either case why are you both dancing around the question of moderation instead of just saying what kind of speech you think should be allowed in your spaces?

Left Unity is always “do what we want or you’re a cia shitlib”. A huge red flag whenever a tankie talks about it.

I had a recent conversation on Lemmy with a marxist that didnt want Left Unity. Its not only the anarchists doing it

Not sure what you think I am dancing around I dont moderate anything. Why do you think you can demand serious discussion in any space you enter?

Meme 1

How would you define imperialism exactly? I'm not aware of any definition that applies to CPC-era China. Did you know that the last new land claim made by the Chinese was under the KMT?

Meme 2

A strong state is entirely consistent with Lennin's dictatorship of the proletariat. The question is, is it delivering materially for the working class? What do you think the Chinese working class thinks about that?

Meme 3

This strawman is a bit too absurd to engage with, I've never heard anybody say that

whole process people’s democracy

What even is that? The Wikipedia Article sounda super vague and / or shitty

"Demand" lol.

By all means be as unserious as you like but I personally am disinterested

✌️

Seems like you are very interested and are still confused why nobody took you seriously on the anarchist shitposting comm.

I think it's best described as a philosophy that permeates their whole system of government.

I think these examples are illustrative of the principle in action:

• The Five-Year Plans aren't just dreamed up by Xi Jinping, there's a nationwide consultation process that starts from the bottom and builds up to a presentation for approval at the "Two Sessions". That's part of why they have so much internal legitimacy and why they tend to get accomplished
• they have a number code (like 911 in the USA) except it's for reporting minor city life issues like potholes and downed branches. Residents use it because they see the reported problems get fixed quickly
• the cornerstone of the rural poverty alleviation program was making ground-level Party members individually responsible for specific families, meaning their career advancement opportunities were directly dependent on how well their families were doing getting out of poverty

There's so much more but those are the quick examples that came to mind

You can have it all to yourselves

As long as we dont piss you off so.you come knockin', right? This whole thing is so confusing. Why even comment in the first place if this is your reaction? I hang with the bears all the time but dont go in there like "why is nobody hating states with me? I specifically commented!" Lmao

I'm not even sure what kind of dance we're doing here.

J'accuse the mod of banning for questioning CIA propaganda.

No one has substantively addressed that claim, and I'm not interested in participating in communities moderated by useful idiots for the intel state

I thought the Lemmy anarchists were better than that (hence the post here) but it's looking like not

Decolonization starts at the mind. You know they control all the media outlets and NGOs and think tanks and influencers that you listen to, yet you think you are somehow above their influence

https://anarwiki.org/wiki/Marxist-Leninist_Persecution_Of_Anarchists

Theres no claim to address, you took a shit post seriously and then wanted to have a serious discussion about it. Thats really all that happened. Do I agree with the post? Not 100%, but its a shitpost, its not here for truth.

I engaged with flamebait and got banned. Caught red-handed doing literal PTB the mod is now retreating to diversionary absurdism and you are running the same playbook as well

"It's your fault for thinking there should be rules governing moderation decisions" is honestly such an embarrassing take from both of you. It certainly illustrates where everyone stands

Thank you for writing that out.

Still sounds vague to me necause the actual process if decision making is not explained in a way that I can follow. Not just in your comment but also in the Wikipedia article.

Like I understand the how the ideal process works in liberal democracy, how consensus decision making in small groups work or how a union in western europe makes decision. There are clear processes outlined and I am aware of atleast some of the informal things happening that could influence a decision.

For me it would be helpful to have a transparent process explained that shows the for example how the nationwide consultation gets made and how its results get analyzed and put into the 5 years plan.

It is hard to get a good understanding using only resources in English, unfortunately (my Mandarin is toddler-level at best)

I have been looking around for some sources and I think these 2 are the best place to start based on your question:

• This video by Ben Norton is a little long but very good
• This is a search I did at "ProleWiki" which is one of the best places to get info "outside of the media bubble" I plan on reading about 5 links from that list, we will see if ADHD allows it

What the fuck does this mean? Dude its simple.

enter comm that is unserious and posts no serious discussion as a rule
enter you, pissed about some see see pee meme
try to make serious discussion

Do you not fucken see this? Like if I walked into some place that said "No pissing on the floor" and I walked in there and pissed on the floor, I'm not going to be wondering why the fuck I got kicked out. So why are you?

1. I wasn't banned for serious discussion according to the modlog. I think it's pretty obvious to everyone that the mod got emotional and banned on that basis. Now you and the mod are trying to move the goal posts and back-justify. I don't find it persuasive
2. It's clear there will be nothing but deflection and denial here

You were told both rules you broke. If you dont want to accept that then ok.

Well, I gotta err on YDI with this one.

You went hard in a meme community that specifically has rules against what you did. Like, it doesn't matter if you're right or wrong, it doesn't even matter that the mod was a prick about it (though that would usually lean harder to PTB in a borderline issue) and breaking their own rules by doing so.

I sympathize to some degree since a ban is a tad harsh for a first offense when the fediverse is harder to verify rules in than reddit was/is. But it's on the user to do so, or accept the consequences when we don't. I've had bans for just that reason; didn't mean to cause a problem, but didn't verify rules. You gotta suck it up and move on ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It's a common feature of Marxist thought.

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withering_away_of_the_state
• https://everything.explained.today/Withering_away_of_the_state/
• https://www.marxists.org/archive/hardcastle/1946/wither_away.htm

Hue and cry

hating the nations that should be your greatest allies in the fight.

Yeah, I can just see these so-called "AES" falling over themselves to support socialist projects that can actually be called socialist with a straight face just like they've done... at absolutely no point in history whatsoever.

You violated the communities rules apologizing for capitalists and an authoritarian state. Why would you think that this rhetoric would be welcome there? Because you identify as a leftist? I got news for you, anarchists have freedom of association and we don't need to put up with tankie bullshit. YDM.

where does it say that capitalist apologya is banned?

if you are seeing fascist tendencies at !tankiejerk@anarchist.nexus , please report it. we take not hosting a platform for fascism very seriously.

I wouldn't say a ban is a harsh result, they literally went into the comm with the intent to violate the rules, then sealioned. "Fuck off, troll" is usually what you write in the modlogs on that

Sure, but the alternative is often "condemn every implementation of socialism except the failed experiments in Ukraine and Catalonia or else you're a red fascist".

Left unity is just supposed to be about focusing on building communism over sectarianism. Going into that space and immediately starting to go on a tirade about China or something is pretty much the same thing this post is about but from the other side.