Correct, it was socialist, moving towards communism

Your analogy does not work. Not all states are genocidal and the term has an actual clear definition that makes it distuingushable from other mass-killings.

Tough titty then

Mods i spill my juice

Quality of life in the Soviet Gulag system was higher from 1952 onwards than modern us prison system

Why are you talking about the french revolution?

Glad to hear it got better than an absolute death sentence with many prisoners only lasting one season.

I don’t think people outside America don’t matter.

You literally couldn't comprehend the idea that not everyone you were talking to was American

My god you write a lot to cover the fact you're not actually saying anything

I love reading Black Book Of Communism Propaganda and never looking into things myself! I love not judging a society by the context of its time, but instead by an arbitrary measurement I only enforce for those that are wrongthink to utter anything positive about!

yeah I think the soviets maybe had a bit much on their plate until 1952 and maybe allocating resources to make the lives of Nazi prisoners comfortable wasn't at the forefront of their minds, since the comfort of prisoners was not at the forefront of anyones mind in those days.

Please do hold your breath.

You can just say you don't understand what I'm saying. It's okay.

Everything I read clearly states that all the knarly stuff happened before the cut off you say. If you have any statistical information after that I would be interested.

Yes, I will definitely judge history through a modern lense. I have no qualms about saying X leader (like for example George Washington) is a piece of shit. I definitely have a soft spot for communism and socialism, but I am also a realist and I focus on policy results as opposed to rhetoric.

Go back to Reddit you dork

Technically correct. There has never been a communist state because communism is a socio economic system that by definition is stateless. The USSR most definitely was socialist though, and implementing communism definitely was their goal.

You also cant make one. Any actual government will be "authoritarian" because any government (by whatever name you choose) will wield state power. A good explanation is @Cowbee@lemmy.mls example of enforcing health standards during a pandemic

Which just goes to show you love eating piss and shit.

Wow when I change the words without engaging with the matter, it turns out anything means everything

There are no homeless in China. Cuba has the most progressive queer rights legislation.

Ok, so if I assumed someone I was arguing about American politics with on an English speaking forum was American, it doesn’t just mean I was wrong to assume that, it also means that I believe the lives of non-Americans do not matter?

Yes, because you would not have made that assumption if you actually conceived of non-Americans as being as real and human as Americans.

There are multiple idiots in this same thread who seem to believe the Nuremberg trials were used to prosecute every German soldier after WWII.

No there aren't. There are no people saying that. You are lying.

And any disagreement, no matter what about, ends with you accusing your opponent of being a genocide supporter.

And you are continuing to lie.

Yes, I will definitely judge history through a modern lense.

Not what I'm saying and its spelled without the e at the end.

George Washington was also a piece of shit back in his time.

but I am also a realist and I focus on policy results as opposed to rhetoric.

Yeah you seem very realistic when you reactively screech at the very concept of a state wielding authority

There are multiple idiots in this same thread who seem to believe the Nuremberg trials were used to prosecute every German soldier after WWII.

Why is it so common for people like you to let your eyes glazed over and misread stuff to something thats easier to argue against? Why do you insist on making discussion as difficult as possible, to force people to drag you to the trough of every single argument, instead of simply just engaging with the discussion at hand? Is it because you are aware, somewhere deep down, how faulty your premise is? Or are you just rotten to the core?

"I know what you are, but what am i?" Was tired in kindergarten my guy

Tired. Yes. That’s what I am. You people are exhausting.

If everyone you interact with smells like shit, then its probably a you problem.

Go quote where anyone actually said what you claim they said.

Currently a total of 1.9 M across all incarceration systems: https://www.theglobalstatistics.com/united-states-imprisonment-statistics/

What are USA numbers now? That's the only way this is in context.

Source?

Stalin was the single champion of Khorne in charge of the Soviet Union but at the same time was powerless to stop the massive quality of life improvements resulting from the government policies ordered by....somebody?

They do understand what youre saying. You dont have an answer but instead of just writing "I don't have an answer for that, you have given me something to think about" you try to write a whole bunch of nothing to save face.

When looking that up, I came across this tidbit of extra irony at the start of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate :

According to the World Prison Brief (WPB) the United States had the world's highest incarceration rate from 2001 (when the US overtook Russia) through October 4, 2022 (US rate of 629 per 100,000 population at that time).

Rummaging around through other sources gives me the idea the numbers are being massaged and manipulated, and that the real numbers could be much higher, and not had [as many sources imply] a decline from around 2003-2023. I suspect it could very likely be higher than 1996, now in 2026, rather than around half of what it was in 1996 [as many sources imply].

I wonder how many on house arrest, in bureaucratic states of transition that do not get counted as incarceration (even for extended periods), kept for questioning for terrorism, crammed into slavery prisons with quotas to fulfil, in local jails, in ICE holding, in private prisons that do not call themselves part of the US prison system, in unrecorded illegal incarceration, immigration processing, etc etc etc that are not being counted.

Not to mention the sanctuary districts! [Like Star Trek Deep Space Nine warned us about, on our television sets around the world around 1996, 57th & 58th episodes (11th & 12th episodes of season 3).]

And the broader "open prison" aspects of society... even just like the prison slop in place of food.

Depending on how one cuts the pie... could arguably go right up to around 300 million.

Or, perhaps more contrived an over-reach of interpretation.... around 8 billion.

be owned by owners,

is not what freedom looks like.

perverse incentives.

Why do you judge history deliberately out of context? What makes you believe modern values are correct, and that they will not be severely backwards compared to the future? We can only judge based off of proper context, because that's how we can track a through line to today. The ideological successors to the soviet union have certainly advanced in social views and more, and are at the forefront of queer liberation today. That doesn't mean we cannot acknowledge the reactionary social views of the Soviet Union as compared to today, but instead that we can better highlight the progressive social views of the Soviet Union compared to its peers.

We are all "realists," or more specifically we are dialectical materialists. We focus on results, and proper historical analysis.

The soviet prison system was never an absolute death sentence, and further most prisoners did not "last" long because they served their term and were freed.

Rule 2

Do you have to be so rude to make your points?

Storytime! Mostly because holy shit this is weighing on my mind like mad, and I need to vent. Living in USA.

Someone in my life allegedly did something bad last weekend. I found out by getting a phone call from the local jailhouse on their behalf yesterday morning. I'm their contact, found their legal help, and been drug along part of the process. Holy FUCK is it absolutely insane the shit you have to do. The predatory-ass system has you completely fucked if you're poor. A fucking five thousand dollar payment for bail, that they allow only the panicked voice of the detainee to inform you about, so you likely jump right in and take action and pay that bail before the arraignment trial where the prices can be reduced, or he can even be up and set free. Dont have the money? That's okay! You can pay 10% if you put some substantially valued aspect of your life up for collateral. The referenced suggestions? A house and a car. Now if they fuck up before their trial, you lose basically everything. And lord, don't even get me started on the sentence times. Threatening the lad with twenty years for some alleged not-severe crimes, the boy hasn't even lived for that long, so he panics and talks before we can get legal council to him. Anyone with a single look from the outside can tell he's not getting anything near that, but they wave it over his head like it's a looking threat he's gotta serve.

If any of you go through this process, I swear, it becomes apparent as day that this whole thing is built to incentivize you to remain in jail. To stay as cheap prison labor or whatever it may be. This whole process is fucked. I haven't even seen the legal fees yet.

Also, are there any books critical of communism/stalinism/maoism/leninism you'd recommend? Figure I'll stagger one pro one anti and find the middle. So far I have if any have major issues let me know and I'll decide if they are worth my time.

Anne Applebaum, Gulag: A History

Yang Jisheng, Tombstone

Orlando Figes, The Whisperers

Stephen Kotkin, Stalin: Paradoxes of Power, 1878–1928

Sheila Fitzpatrick, Everyday Stalinism

Oleg Khlevniuk, The History of the Gulag

Arch Getty & Oleg Naumov, The Road to Terror

No, because I haven't read anything critical of Marxism-Leninism that I'd recommend. Further, finding a "middle" between two ideas doesn't translate into being more correct, or more nuanced. All of the works I listed do bring up real issues that exist within socialist states, so you already are getting a good, critical view.

Everything you've listed is heavily biased. None of it is neutral at all when I looked into them. Which is fine, but I'd like to read both. Not to be correct, just for full context. The second list I presented I haven't read anything of but all are supposed to be more historical and less political.

Everything you listed was both biased and historically inaccurate, though. Every source is biased in some way, what's important is recognizing what that bias is.

All works are biased, learn some academic literacy. Especially after you posted a list of the most single minded anti communist propaganda imaginable