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SocialistVibes01
lemmy.ml
SocialistVibes01@lemmy.mlJoined: 2026-04-30 |
Google's September 2026 Pixel Update Bulletin contains patches beyond what's in that month's regular Android Security Bulletin. According to GrapheneOS, some of those extra patches touch standard Android platform code, the kind that runs on non-Pixel devices, not just Pixel-branded hardware. None of that platform-level code has reached the regular monthly bulletin or the private preview patches other manufacturers typically draw from to get their own patches ready. And at this rate, these won't reach non-Pixel OEMs at all until Android 17 QPR2 ships later this year in December. The project is characterizing this as Google "gatekeeping security patches to the standard Android platform code from Android OEMs." GrapheneOS says Android 17 QPR1 shipped new developer APIs that never made it into AOSP. This is something they claim hasn't happened since Android's Honeycomb days. Google's API diff report backs this up. Comparing Android 17 to QPR1 shows one new package, android.hardware.hid, plus changes across sixteen others, including android.media, android.os, android.provider, android.telecom, and android.view. GrapheneOS has ported its code to QPR1 before Google even released it, but still doesn't have permission to ship that work. For now, the project is backporting Pixel firmware, kernel drivers, userspace drivers, and HALs from QPR1 onto Android 17 instead. On top of all that, there's a compliance issue that seems to be recurring. Google was slow to comply with a GPL source request. GrapheneOS requested sources for a build (CD1A.260905.001.A1) on September 1, and access only came through more than two weeks later. Why this is worrying None of these three issues is catastrophic by itself. A three-month patch delay, a paused API rollout, a two-week wait on source code—each is the kind of thing that could pass as a one-off. Taken together, however, they point to a recurring theme. Google is holding security fixes back from the wider Android ecosystem, withholding new APIs from AOSP for the first time in over a decade, and slow-walking GPL compliance it's required to meet. Don't even get me started on what they are doing to the Android app ecosystem. Google is on track to require every Android app developer, whether on the Play Store, F-Droid, or anywhere else, to register with them. Come 2027, that means handing over legal identification and signing key evidence before an app can run on any certified device. Sideloading an unverified app following this would mean enabling developer settings, waiting through a mandatory 24-hour cooldown, and clicking past several warning screens (classic scare tactics, btw). GrapheneOS is one of dozens of organizations that signed onto the Keep Android Open campaign opposing this, alongside F-Droid, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, and the Free Software Foundation. If you ask me, this Big Tech company is doing what's regrettably natural for it, clamping down open access to things so that its competition cannot benefit. |
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ZkhqrD5o
lemmy.world
ZkhqrD5o@lemmy.world Joined: 2024-02-17 |
It's called installing apps, not "sideloading". Installing your programmes into a device you own is normal, being blocked from doing that is abnormal. |
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eleijeep
piefed.social
eleijeep@piefed.social Joined: 2025-09-22 |
Huh? What do they need permission for? I had no idea that GrapheneOS was so dependent on Android as an upstream project. |
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eleitl
lemmy.zip
eleitl@lemmy.zip Joined: 2025-06-05 |
GrapheneOS has ported its code to QPR1 before Google even released it, but still doesn’t have permission to ship that work. Huh? What do they need permission for? I had no idea that GrapheneOS was so dependent on Android as an upstream project.
It's about Pixel specifics. I hope next year there is an alternative. |
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DutchJ
lemmy.zip
DutchJ@lemmy.zip Joined: 2026-09-19 |
Honestly, I am running GrapheneOS (o7 to the devs, btw) until my Pixel 6a dies, and then I am switching to Jolla + SailfishOS. |
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auzy1
lemmy.world
auzy1@lemmy.world Joined: 2026-05-03 |
Steam lepton is interesting. It's almost like steam is also possibly going after the play store eventually too. So, if they do that, and manufacturers change away, it's a win |
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CerebralHawks
lemmy.dbzer0.com
cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.comJoined: 2025-08-18 |
I've been trying to convince people for the last 10-15 years that Google is no friend to the open source community. It's been difficult and sounds self-serving as I do it from Apple devices and make no attempt to hide or conceal that. AOSP and chromium are open source projects. What Google actually puts out — Android and Chrome — are not. They take the open source foundations, and they build upon them with closed-source components. They've always done this. AOSP does not have any Google apps either (sometimes called GApps) as those are not open source. Browser and Mail are not Chrome and Gmail, though the former may be a chromium-based browser and the latter may be capable of retrieving and sending through Gmail (much like Apple's mail app can). Android is not an open source ally, and macOS is kinda, sorta, not really based on UNIX. But we could flip the script and say that Apple is a friend to open source because macOS is basically UNIX (via OS X and NextStep), while Android isn't open source at all. I can already see the pitchforks being sharpened. Both positives are technically true from a certain point of view (like Vader having killed Anakin Skywalker, to use Obi-Wan's example for this turn of a phrase), but the negatives of both are more accurate. Because to really be a friend to the world of open source (and FOSS, and the more preferred licenses), you can't just half-ass it, you gotta go all the way. Apple isn't there and neither is Google. F-Droid is what the Android Market (I'm that old, and older) should have become, with Google offering a repository you can add to F-Droid. Google Play Store is trash and pretty much always has been, and I say that as someone who deals with the App Store (which is also trash) every day. Of course I also root for GrapheneOS, up until they say you can only use their OS with a Pixel phone. If I want iPhone 11 performance, I'm not spending iPhone 18 Pro money on a Pixel 11, I'm gonna either get iPhone 18 Pro performance, or, if I want Android, I'm looking at the Galaxy S line. I'm not even looking at Pixel and its sorry ass, seven generations behind Tensor line. Bad enough Snapdragon struggles to keep up with Apple silicon. Does Tensor even try? But nah, I wanna see GrapheneOS do what Andy Rubin did. Make Linux run on phones. But make it run on any phone. I guess I don't mean "including the iPhone." That would be nice, but Apple isn't unlocking that bootloader. But we should expect a free, open source alternative to Android to run on any hardware, not just the one run by the one causing the problems. (So what standards do I aspire my iPhone to? I want it to be more like the Mac, with a terminal and ability to install apps from anywhere.) |
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JustEnoughDucks
slrpnk.net
JustEnoughDucks@slrpnk.net Joined: 2026-03-10 |
Honestly, I am running GrapheneOS (o7 to the devs, btw) until my Pixel 6a dies, and then I am switching to Jolla + SailfishOS. There is nothing more maddening to me than seeing Microslop and Google slowly filling their ecosystem with irremovable invasive bloatware and basically blocking a free market.
Sadly, security on the Jolla is laughable. Comparable to a standard Linux installation years ago, from what I have heard... It is so dumb that pretty much we only have to make these giant compromises because of greed. |
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4am
lemmy.zip
4am@lemmy.zip Joined: 2025-06-23 |
This was already the inevitability of Android; Google was just willing to spend 15-20 years to achieve as much market dominance as possible. They fought off Palm webOS, Windows Mobile, Linux phones are just now materializing, iOS is huge but having one major competitor isn’t a problem. Now that “the reality of the world means more security is needed” Google will work their way out of any openness they once had. Perhaps even someday their own hardware will be the only game in town. They’re already by FAR the worst company when it comes to harvesting data and profiling you. |
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eleitl
lemmy.zip
eleitl@lemmy.zip Joined: 2025-06-05 |
Honestly, I am running GrapheneOS (o7 to the devs, btw) until my Pixel 6a dies, and then I am switching to Jolla + SailfishOS. There is nothing more maddening to me than seeing Microslop and Google slowly filling their ecosystem with irremovable invasive bloatware and basically blocking a free market.
We'll see what Motorola will cook up. Of course GOS team can't maintain an Android fork on their own. It doesn't need new features, just stability and security on the right hardware platform. And it's too bad Google killed the Pixel tablets. There isn't anything new supported on LineageOS either. Seems I have to bite the bullet, and look at Linux tablets. |
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DutchJ
lemmy.zip
DutchJ@lemmy.zip Joined: 2026-09-19 |
Sadly, security on the Jolla is laughable. Comparable to a standard Linux installation years ago, from what I have heard... It is so dumb that pretty much we only have to make these giant compromises because of greed.
For me, having control over my own system outweighs this. Might be naive though. Plus, I want to support these kind of initiatives. |
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FreddiesLantern
leminal.space
FreddiesLantern@leminal.space Joined: 2025-09-19 |
Join forces with postmarketOS? I mean I'm well aware that they won't be taking any of their work over to that platform but they are expanding their hardware support pretty wide and it's full on linux afaik. |
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altkey (he\him)
lemmy.dbzer0.com
altkey@lemmy.dbzer0.comJoined: 2025-02-26 |
If we assume Google is a wiggledog of alphabet (lel) agencies, it would want to wiggle off all deviants and provide a single platform one can exploit in a predictable way and not others. In a subscription-model fashion, they benefit from having an ever moving window of vulnerabilities so their clients need to get the latest ones or otherwise they wouldn't work. I slightly remember an article concerning russian cops using old Pegasus to dig into someone's iphone and israelis commenting that it is outdated by a couple of years and is not applicable to modern models. Privacy-focused OSes and apps out of their control introduce deviances Google doesn't want to account for, so they establish a total monopoly. There should be something more than we have now to tell Google should cool the fuck down. |
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melfie
lemmy.zip
melfie@lemmy.zip Joined: 2026-03-24 |
Steam lepton is interesting. It's almost like steam is also possibly going after the play store eventually too. So, if they do that, and manufacturers change away, it's a win
I’m not sure if Lepton improves on Waydroid for general apps as well, or just games. It would be great to see more weight behind Linux phones, but not sure if Valve intends to do it or not. |
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grue
lemmy.world
grue@lemmy.world Joined: 2023-06-13 |
When is some country's government finally going to grow a pair and block this shit on the grounds of antitrust law? |
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Jay🚩
lemmy.ml
jaypatelani@lemmy.mlJoined: 2020-07-09 |
We need Proper Linux/BSD phone |
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comrademiao
piefed.social
comrademiao@piefed.social Joined: 2026-03-09 |
Graphene's team is never happy. If no one picked a fight with them they would find one. |
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Default Username
lemmy.dbzer0.com
defaultusername@lemmy.dbzer0.com Joined: 2025-06-12 |
Honestly, I am running GrapheneOS (o7 to the devs, btw) until my Pixel 6a dies, and then I am switching to Jolla + SailfishOS. There is nothing more maddening to me than seeing Microslop and Google slowly filling their ecosystem with irremovable invasive bloatware and basically blocking a free market.
If you don't already have the Jolla hardware, I'd consider getting a Fairphone 6 or 6+ instead and using TheMightyCat's build of postmarketOS. They've been doing some insane work with hardware enablement on the close-to-mainline kernel for that phone to the point where it's almost 100% fully functional. |
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GotExx
lemmy.ml
GotExx@lemmy.mlJoined: 2021-03-02 |
We need Proper Linux/BSD phone
SailfishOS phone ? |
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loutr
sh.itjust.works
loutr@sh.itjust.worksJoined: 2023-06-11 |
I’m not sure if Lepton improves on Waydroid for general apps as well, or just games. It would be great to see more weight behind Linux phones, but not sure if Valve intends to do it or not.
It says on the repo that the scope is limited to games only. Other apps may work but they're not actively supported, and APIs not used by games won't be implemented. |
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mlfh
lm.mlfh.org
mlfh@lm.mlfh.org Joined: 2026-04-07 |
Graphene's team is never happy. If no one picked a fight with them they would find one.
That's good, that's the whole point - if there were nothing wrong with android/google worth picking a fight over, graphene wouldn't need to exist in the first place. I want my graphene/EFF/etc teams rabid, angry, picking fights, and armed with bazookas. |
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youmaynotknow
lemmy.zip
jjlinux@lemmy.zipJoined: 2025-07-24 |
This was already the inevitability of Android; Google was just willing to spend 15-20 years to achieve as much market dominance as possible. They fought off Palm webOS, Windows Mobile, Linux phones are just now materializing, iOS is huge but having one major competitor isn’t a problem. Now that “the reality of the world means more security is needed” Google will work their way out of any openne...
Agree 99%. But I would argue that Google is on par with Meta on the profiling front. |
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Sina
beehaw.org
Sina@beehaw.org Joined: 2023-07-02 |
SailfishOS phone ?
That one is not fully open source. I understand why, but I don't like it. |
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GreatWhiteBuffalo41
slrpnk.net
greatwhitebuffalo41@slrpnk.netJoined: 2023-06-11 |
Google is on track to require every Android app developer, whether on the Play Store, F-Droid, or anywhere else, to register with them. Come 2027, that means handing over legal identification and signing key evidence before an app can run on any certified device. When is some country's government finally going to grow a pair and block this shit on the grounds of antitrust law?
Only when they stop getting some kind of benefit from it. |
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bad1080
piefed.social
bad1080@piefed.social Joined: 2026-02-27 |
We need Proper Linux/BSD phone
i mean there is AOSP |
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AHemlocksLie
lemmy.zip
AHemlocksLie@lemmy.zip Joined: 2024-03-10 |
We need Proper Linux/BSD phone
PostmarketOS works pretty decently on certain hardware from my understanding. Apps are lacking, though. I think you might be able to run Android apps through something like Waydroid, but I think certain apps like bank apps don't like that. |
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AHemlocksLie
lemmy.zip
AHemlocksLie@lemmy.zip Joined: 2024-03-10 |
SailfishOS phone ?
Yeah, not, I'm not buying a corporate owned phone again so we can repeat this later. Fully open source should be the goal. |
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OhVenus_Baby
lemmy.ml
OhVenus_Baby@lemmy.ml Joined: 2023-11-14 |
Don't forget everyone! Cheering on Motorola is no good feat. When the Flock cameras are getting take down. Guess who's placing new cameras in the exact same places as the Flock poles. Axon and Motorola. Still want your Graphene phone on Motorola? Not a good sign. |
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wylinka
szmer.info
wylinka@szmer.info Joined: 2025-01-02 |
Don't forget everyone! Cheering on Motorola is no good feat. When the Flock cameras are getting take down. Guess who's placing new cameras in the exact same places as the Flock poles. Axon and Motorola. Still want your Graphene phone on Motorola? Not a good sign.
Motorola Solutions != Motorola Mobility Motorola Mobility is Lenovo and since 2014 they have nothing to do with each other apart from the branding. |
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HobbitFoot
thelemmy.club
HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club Joined: 2023-06-16 |
I've been trying to convince people for the last 10-15 years that Google is no friend to the open source community. It's been difficult and sounds self-serving as I do it from Apple devices and make no attempt to hide or conceal that. AOSP and chromium are open source projects. What Google actually puts out — Android and Chrome — are not. They take the open source foundations, and they build up...
Google used open source as cover to to illegally dump into different industries to expand its monopoly. It did the bare minimum to prepare for the antitrust litigation that never came. |
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krolden
lemmy.ml
krolden@lemmy.mlJoined: 2020-06-30 |
Yeah, not, I'm not buying a corporate owned phone again so we can repeat this later. Fully open source should be the goal.
Lmao good luck |
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Sina
beehaw.org
Sina@beehaw.org Joined: 2023-07-02 |
Lmao good luck
Jolla is a startup that is taking advantage of foss being free & are not really contributing back. All the innovations they made to actually make their Linux phone usable is lost to the community at large. I think we need something similar to the Lenovo + Graphene collab. Mass produced phones sold at commodity prices with a usable Linux option. |
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Sina
beehaw.org
Sina@beehaw.org Joined: 2023-07-02 |
PostmarketOS works pretty decently on certain hardware from my understanding. Apps are lacking, though. I think you might be able to run Android apps through something like Waydroid, but I think certain apps like bank apps don't like that.
The list of well supported phones is vanishingly small & what's even worse is that it's not really daily drivable on any device. The idle battery drain is immense with the modem on. Honestly I'm not even certain that without a proper relationship with the hardware vendors it's possible to build something that doesn't drain itself in 2 days of idling. |
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DutchJ
lemmy.zip
DutchJ@lemmy.zip Joined: 2026-09-19 |
Lmao good luck Jolla is a startup that is taking advantage of foss being free & are not really contributing back. All the innovations they made to actually make their Linux phone usable is lost to the community at large. I think we need something similar to the Lenovo + Graphene collab. Mass produced phones sold at commodity prices with a usable Linux option.
Can you elaborate on this? I am planning to preorder a Jolla phone, bad idea in your opninion? |
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krolden
lemmy.ml
krolden@lemmy.mlJoined: 2020-06-30 |
Lmao good luck Jolla is a startup that is taking advantage of foss being free & are not really contributing back. All the innovations they made to actually make their Linux phone usable is lost to the community at large. I think we need something similar to the Lenovo + Graphene collab. Mass produced phones sold at commodity prices with a usable Linux option.
The company has been around for like 15 years I don't think you can call them a startup anymore |
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AHemlocksLie
lemmy.zip
AHemlocksLie@lemmy.zip Joined: 2024-03-10 |
Can you elaborate on this? I am planning to preorder a Jolla phone, bad idea in your opninion?
If you want a fully open source Linux phone, the best option is to get whatever is supported by a mobile distro. I think PostmarketOS has some of the best support, but I may be mistaken. There's also Ubuntu Touch, Mobian, and I want to say one more I'm forgetting. |
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motruck
lemmy.zip
motruck@lemmy.zip Joined: 2025-08-23 |
The list of well supported phones is vanishingly small & what's even worse is that it's not really daily drivable on any device. The idle battery drain is immense with the modem on. Honestly I'm not even certain that without a proper relationship with the hardware vendors it's possible to build something that doesn't drain itself in 2 days of idling.
Two days? I charged every night even when using Google's OS. |
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mofongo
discuss.tchncs.de
mofongo@discuss.tchncs.deJoined: 2026-07-07 |
SailfishOS phone ?
Furiphone? |
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stinkytofuisgood
lemmy.ca
stinkytofuisgood@lemmy.caJoined: 2026-01-31 |
When Sony announced the end of physical disks, a low level exploit for the PS5 was released - to me the timing of this makes the message clear. I hope we soon have some sort of similar response with Google, whatever that may be. We are reaching a point where it's evident we need to really start seriously developing open source alternatives for the technology in our life that is essentially gated by duopolies, monopolies, and oligopolies... Thanks to the author for publishing important news like this. Spreading the word is so important. Making it understandable to the average person equally so. We need to educate the youth in particular before they become irreversibly entrenched in an even worse tech corpo-dystopia. Also, if any Grapheneos devs are reading this, I love you guys and I respect the hell outta the work you're putting in. Anyone who has the means and the passion, I'm sure they wouldn't mind a donation or even just feedback and engagement. |
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auzy1
lemmy.world
auzy1@lemmy.world Joined: 2026-05-03 |
It says on the repo that the scope is limited to games only. Other apps may work but they're not actively supported, and APIs not used by games won't be implemented.
That makes sense.. As, for gaming, you'd make the windows full sized, and they can just use gamescope. But, doesn't mean it can't be improved long term |
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OhVenus_Baby
lemmy.ml
OhVenus_Baby@lemmy.ml Joined: 2023-11-14 |
Motorola Solutions != Motorola Mobility Motorola Mobility is Lenovo and since 2014 they have nothing to do with each other apart from the branding.
What a shit coincidence. |
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comrademiao
piefed.social
comrademiao@piefed.social Joined: 2026-03-09 |
That's good, that's the whole point - if there were nothing wrong with android/google worth picking a fight over, graphene wouldn't need to exist in the first place. I want my graphene/EFF/etc teams rabid, angry, picking fights, and armed with bazookas.
They’re wildly unprofessional with no decorum, providing me zero ability to trust them unlike most other FOSS I also disagree being unhappy and picking fights is the point. Their creator stepped down for a reason. |
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deadcade
lemmy.deadca.de
deadcade@lemmy.deadca.de Joined: 2023-06-06 |
Can you elaborate on this? I am planning to preorder a Jolla phone, bad idea in your opninion?
To add to the other commenters reply; When Jolla does something, like make new software or patches, most of that is proprietary. They're creating their own thing, and nobody outside Jolla can benefit from their work. That's fine, but pretty much equivalent to any other corporate-owned mobile OS in terms of freedom, like Google's Android. There's more open options, but they all have their differences. Ubuntu Touch (or really anything on UBPorts) has some components you would also find on Linux, but still uses the OEM kernel and proprietary Android device drivers. This means that devices are much more likely to work, but you rely on the OEM to maintain support for the device on Android. postmarketOS (and others, like Mobian) try to build most things from scratch instead. This means less hardware is supported, and functionality is often not great. However, all development is open, and they're trying to ensure there's little to no reliance on OEMs. This theoretically makes for much better (community supported) future proofing. |
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boonhet
sopuli.xyz
boonhet@sopuli.xyz Joined: 2025-06-16 |
Two days? I charged every night even when using Google's OS.
Did you use the phone at all? 2 days of idling, to me, implies never turning on the screen or opening any apps |
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dropdrip
lemmy.ml
dropdrip@lemmy.ml Joined: 2026-04-19 |
Google is on track to require every Android app developer, whether on the Play Store, F-Droid, or anywhere else, to register with them. Come 2027, that means handing over legal identification and signing key evidence before an app can run on any certified device. When is some country's government finally going to grow a pair and block this shit on the grounds of antitrust law?
Most governments are fascists. They want what Google is working towards: a certified device. Once you have a platform that the majority owns and is certified you can start rolling out more fascist policies, like identity verification for asinine things. The American courts failed a long time ago in regards to software with Microsoft. You could make cases against Google decades ago, but literally no one cares for some reason. |
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TrollAccount69
lemmy.ml
TrollAccount69@lemmy.ml Joined: 2026-08-10 |
I've been trying to convince people for the last 10-15 years that Google is no friend to the open source community. It's been difficult and sounds self-serving as I do it from Apple devices and make no attempt to hide or conceal that. AOSP and chromium are open source projects. What Google actually puts out — Android and Chrome — are not. They take the open source foundations, and they build up...
I use both graphene and ios and graphene on pixels is even slower than pixels are by default. |
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Jay🚩
lemmy.ml
jaypatelani@lemmy.mlJoined: 2020-07-09 |
PostmarketOS works pretty decently on certain hardware from my understanding. Apps are lacking, though. I think you might be able to run Android apps through something like Waydroid, but I think certain apps like bank apps don't like that.
Yeah I mean with Posh based on kde based but with native Linux app ecosystem. |
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master_baiter
programming.dev
master_baiter@programming.dev Joined: 2026-08-16 |
google doing as best as it possibly can to turn android into iOS but with none of the benefits |
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| 36 | |||
sudoer777
lemmy.ml
sudoer777@lemmy.mlJoined: 2021-02-18 |
If you don't already have the Jolla hardware, I'd consider getting a Fairphone 6 or 6+ instead and using TheMightyCat's build of postmarketOS. They've been doing some insane work with hardware enablement on the close-to-mainline kernel for that phone to the point where it's almost 100% fully functional.
Does it work with other distros also? My phone is about to lose GrapheneOS support and hope to replace it with a Linux phone one day |
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Default Username
lemmy.dbzer0.com
defaultusername@lemmy.dbzer0.com Joined: 2025-06-12 |
Does it work with other distros also? My phone is about to lose GrapheneOS support and hope to replace it with a Linux phone one day
The Fairphone 6 and 6+ can theoretically work with any distro that has 64 bit ARM support. The close-to-mainline kernel fork is where most of the important work is being done, and the rest is in portable open source software (like VoLTE support in userspace, for example). |
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Matt
lemmy.ml
DieserTypMatthias@lemmy.mlJoined: 2024-04-03 |
Honestly we really need a phone with a proper Linux distro that does have same hardening as Graphene and also underclocks the modem and the rest when idle. |
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