In that case sunset would be around 7pm not 5

Great, with scientific evidence backing this we are fucked for ever getting this changed. What we really need is a rising passively racist influencer to get behind the idea to get any support in 2026.

That’s barely different and doesn’t change the first part of what I said.

Ah yes and have companies change their working hours twice per year instead. Lol.

They could just say school and business hour is at 8 instead of 9 from an arbitrary date and have the same effect.

Jetlag time.

It's light out until 9pm in the summer.

Oh yeah, I'm feeling it right now.

Go into detail about what the problems were and why everyone hated it.

People with school aged children were upset that their children were leaving for school in the dark.

People had more accidents in the morning (but accidents in the afternoon and evening hours decreased, especially pedestrian fatalities.

They didn't even try it out for a prolonged period of time and a lot of that had to do with the Watergate scandal and the Nixon presidency.

Also the health benefits of switching to Standard time and doing away with DST would work with permanent DST too. The major health problems that are caused by the current model have to do with altering the bodies internal clock, and you get the benefits of not having to change regardless of whether we choose permant Standard time or permanent DST.

For reference purposes, car accidents spike significantly after DST ends, not just when it starts.

I think the main issue with their attempt in the 70's is that they didn't try to change the hours of school and work to make things more workable. We didn't do that because it would have forced major industries to shift things and that seemed like too much work.

This would make things safer in general and fix sleep deprevation and other sleep related maladies in the vast majority of people who aren't morning people.

And having more natural light during the waking hours decreases the amount of electricity used, can decrease heating and cooling bills, etc.

People complain about the idea (either moving permanent to standard time or morning permanently to DST) literally based on vibes. Nobody seems to give it a chance with actual changes to make it work for any length of time.

I'm also going to point out that a lot of the problem full stop is that Americans just do not have significant amounts of free time.

I say we just split the middle. Change the clock by 30 minutes instead of an hour and then just keep it there.

sleep experts say that standard time (which shifts daylight hours earlier in the morning) aligns best with human circadian biology.

I don't care which way they go. Hell, split the difference and move us to a 30 minute offset if you can't make up your minds. Just stop changing the bloody clocks twice a year. Please!

I wasn't actually alive at the time, thanks for those details! I didn't know why they hated it, just that they must have to have switched back so fast.

That's because you're a hateful person with no joy in your life.

Only in the weeks surrounding the Solstice. Summer is three months long.

If only there was a standard.

Permanent DST would be so stupid.

What is "noon" or "solar noon" under DST? Solar noon is supposed to be the time when the sun is at its peak. AM and PM come from ante meridiem and post meridiem, which are basically "before the sun's peak" and "after the sun's peak". But, under DST the peak is at approx 1pm. So, will saying "I'll meet you at noon" still mean 12pm? Probably, but then "solar noon" will be 1pm but "noon" will be 12am?

If the whole reason behind considering permanent DST that they think the 9-5 schedule of office life is impossible to change? This just reminds me of bad software projects where office politics and middle manager interference meant that rather than fixing the root cause, it was easier just to add tech debt.

Yep, we'll probably increase it to 6x a year in retaliation for those eggheads trying to tell us what to do. That'll show'em.

You could just get up earlier. You are not a slave to your clock.

Yeah, I also wasn't alive (I know most of it from my parents and the internet, but I've also had this conversation on the other place before.

I get the reasons why people like one or the other. I wake up at 3 am for work 5 days a week and I work 10 hour days so my feelings on the matter will be skewed no matter what, but it always seems like a majority of people want to go to standard DST when it's a hypothetical and there's not a good general consensus for why they switch back if it is tried.

I believe Mexico (might be another South American country), did have it and they swapped back due to the "health benefits" but it seems like a lot of the studies around day lights savings time as a whole are relying on supposition and don't have a long term study for the actual effects.

Some studies show more car accidents, some show less, some show nuance. some studies show better or more economical use of utilities like water and rlectro, some show the opposite, or that there is no change.

Some studies show health benefits but those studies assume we don't change sleeping schedules and so on to accommodate/ take advantage of more light, and often the health detriments are based on swapping back and forth twice a year.

Most of this comment I made after reading more articles on it rather than going off memory from the last time I had this conversation, and so what I say here may not necessarily match up with what's in the original comment.

If I remember I'll try to go back up and change that comment to better reflect the new info.

You could just make the numbers be whatever you want if that's what you need to feel good about the time.

As someone who hangs out online with people who don't do DST, it's really annoying to have to re-learn each-other's schedules twice a year. Although that's nowhere near as bad as when I lived in a country with DST and worked with people in the southern hemisphere who also did DST. It would mean that at some times of the year, 9am for us was 5pm for them, so a short meeting was fine. But, other times 9am was 7pm. And then there were the weeks where 9am was 6pm because one side had gone DST and the other side hadn't yet ended it.

Even worse, the logs system at the company timestamped everything in silicon valley wall-clock time, so there were 3 different time zones at play, which all changed at different times.

Really, I think eventually we'll all be on some kind of global time system. So, if I say the meeting is at stardate 1230.2 nobody has to convert to their own local clock.

This is the way.

Step one: agree that fucking with the clocks is really stupid and codify it into law

Step two: start arguing about which time zone is the “right one”

If you try to do both at the same time, step two prevents both

I live so far up north that in the winter the sun rises around noon and sets two hours later.

I literally could not care less which time zone I’m in, the position of the sun has zero effect on my life.

1. That’s a two way street.
2. Actually I am.

Again, I don’t get to set my own schedule, they’re determined by these numbers that while arbitrary, are rigid. Drop a kid off an hour late to school every day and have fun explaining that to a truancy officer, or tell your boss you’re leaving work an hour early to catch some sunlight and see how that goes.

Daylight Saving Time (not Savings). Most people get this wrong and I'm not sure why.

UTC is a thing, commonly used by people who play Eve Online

Go on

Good odds they’re only asking day shift.

What kind of response is that? Night shift workers are a miniscule minority and fucked either way anyway.

So drop them off at the same time, but just call it 8 instead of 7. Or is it more important to force everyone else to be on the same arbitrary number as you?

Oh my state passed a law abolishing it but the federal government stopped it. You want to know why? You want to know the stupid reason why the federal government won't abolish daylight savings? Because polling indicates that half of the people want it gone forever and everybody else wants it there forever.

They literally can't decide whether to always have the clock one way or the other, so we get to split the difference. I don't fucking care. Just pick one and stick with it. Everybody has electric lights anyway, it's the 21st century, we need to move on from this 1700s bullshit.

Better yet hopefully we can get a child rapist or two to support ending dst then Trump will mandate it via executive order

It’s not about the arbitrary number, it’s about where the sun is when that number not dictated by me rolls around.

Yeah, but it's not widely used by anyone other than computer geeks. Not surprised that there's a big crossover between computer geeks and spreadsheet pilots.

And military. Yeah, that's pretty accurate.

Evening/swing shift.

EXACTLY what I always say.

No! Split the difference the other way! Make us jump two hours! Show us all how detrimental daylight savings is! Burn motherfucking greenwich to the ground! Or at least let me get some sleep!

Intentionally, to bother people who are persnicks about it

I'm sure everyone's bosses will be accommodating

Arizona is used to it. When I drove through in July I swear the sun es already high at 4

Because a single news story about a single child being hit by a car on the walk to school was blown out of proportion and played on everyone's fears. Kids don't walk to school anymore.

Just change your circadian rhythms to match morning people's. Also do cocaine

That sounds like the talk of a morning person. Bastard. Where'd you find them?

Kids don't walk to school anymore

What am I passing when I drive home every afternoon? Geese?

https://xkcd.com/927/

I do that alot.

I'd settle for the half hour