It was basic, newest gen Leafs are full of gimmicks, because buyers love gimmicks.

The batteries aren’t cheap

2012 wants it's comment back.

A 50kwhr pack now costs $4000 and dropping.

It's because they are cheap.

There's a startup that is making a totally bare bones car called Slate. I really don't understand why every car has an ipad when I just need a place for my phone and it will accomplish the same thing (minus a back up camera which I find completely unnecessary).

they’re half the price of anything else on the market

Incorrect. They are only importing the expensive models and no prices have even been announced.

The whole of China can only import 50,000 cars in a market of 2 million sales a year.

There's a huge space in the dash, it's basically a large glove box. A radio or screen can be hidden behind the door or built into it, whatever you prefer.

Choice and DIY is a big part of Slate's thing. I don't need or want a screen and would not like a car with a big space for one. I'll add it later if I change my mind.

Incorrect, large SUVs are legally trucks and have less crash protection. Larger vehicles also get into more crashes because of longer stopping distances, poor handling, tendency to flip, and sliding off roads easier in winter.

F150 and Silverado are the two most commonly crashed vehicles.

Same is true in US and Canada, trucks are loopholed for safety to save production costs.

They always just take the ICR out, stick a generic EV powertrain in and basically call it a day.

Literally no one does that. Where does Lemmy get their engineering expertise from?

ABS has saved thousands of lives. Fuel injection has saved billions of dollars in gas.

All that can be disabled in some cars, i.e. Kia.

I find it ironic all this whining about computers and privacy is taking place on the internet where every keystroke is recorded.

I can't believe I'm about to defend Elon Musk.

Prior to Tesla, the very few EVs that existed were dopey-looking and had no range. Tesla's founders (not Elon) realized that lithium battery technology made an actually-good EV possible. They made the Roadster, which was expensive and impressively fast but barebones. Elon horned his way in and took the company on this strategy path: sell that expensive car to create and sell a more mass-market, slightly less expensive car. Then use the money from that car to make an even cheaper mass-market car. That was the Model S/X, and then the Model 3/Y, respectively. It wasn't that this fancy shit was some sham to trick people, it was what a small barely-funded company had to do. It worked out pretty well until they lost the plot a few years ago.

Making a software-defined car does have its benefits too: adding functionality, detecting issues before you get stranded by a breakdown, an improved infotainment experience. You can argue about the merits of those, but realize that the whole industry does this now - for better or worse. But to say that Tesla tricked people into wasting their money on gee-whiz tech is a dishonest representation of EV history.

By 2022, battery prices plunged 90% and Teslas were the highest profit margin vehicles in the industry.

This plunge in battery prices happened specifically because of Tesla making EVs mass-market.

Legacy auto fumbling the EV transition is due entirely to their hubris and incompetence.

That being said, Elon Musk is a Nazi just like Henry Ford before him.

The Prius Hybrid was first available in 1997.

The Slate will be an example of the difference between what people say they will buy, and what they actually buy. Lemmy is obsessed with insisting car companies make cars so no one will buy them.

If people are dumb enough to buy Fords, they deserve every bill they get.

See the new Broncos...complete garbage.

God forbid you read the manual.

That's not a car, it's a quadricycle. 25 mph top speed, no safety at all.

Fiat is selling this now in USA. Basically a large mobility scooter for boomers to drive around their gated communities.

Some guys coffee maker was sending a terabyte of data back to the office, you think turning off the systems stops them from tracking you?

ICE vehicles since the late 00s have been smart devices that phone home.

Bullshit. I have two 2017 vehicles with zero connectivity.

In the US, backup cameras are mandated by law as a safety feature. It’s not an “add-on” or perk like some automakers try to imply.

Same with front end collision avoidance cameras/sensors. Those need to be in all cars manufactured for the US market by 2029.

https://www.slateforums.com/forum/threads/backup-camera-display-screen-in-gauge-cluster-in-action-while-reverse.13237/

This has been tried e.g. e-Golf, Coda but turns out it is not a good way to build an EV. Specifically designed EV platforms (like MEB) won out.

Mostly because they can. You really need to have everything automated anyway, you need at least a backup screen, so you might as well put it on that screen. It’s probably cheaper at that point to control everything by screen than to do install buttons

There’s still some hope

• https://www.slate.auto/en

Maybe no one really wants a 9,000 pound truck, nor to pay for a battery 2-3x the size of car batteries. Not only does the battery add a huge cost but they had to know there would never be any volume …. And that’s across all three Silverado, Hummer and whatever the gmc badge is

Yeah I hope they succeed: we really need something like that.

I understand why they’re building a truck but I really wish they hadn’t. With that low range and the suv/fastback kits being extra cost, it’s not as compelling to me as it should be

I know a part of me wonders if a two seat with flat bed pickup was significantly cheaper than a four seat car with trunk.

I have actually converted an old diesel land rover to electric. NDA so I can't disclose the company, but we replaced the transmission with an electric motor that had an adapter plate to the original transfer case. The engine was replaced with a large battery pack and some electric pumps, handfull of heat exchangers. As you said, converting is never as good. A big heavy pack where the motor was makes it more front heavy than with the diesel 4 cylinder, range was about 120 miles which is pretty piss poor compared to what it could do with the diesel powertrain. It was very cool in theory, but not a practical vehicle. Another company has done a different ev conversion on some of the LR's and they used a Tesla drivetrain if I'm not mistaken, and had to split up the battery pack and spread it across 3 different locations in the vehicle. Purpose built evs are definatley the way for packaging, although repowering classics that only get tooled around here and there to get ice cream or go golfing on the weekend is a neat concept. The weight distribution of the components is just so different from an ice that it necessitates a ground up design. Electric motors are far lighter than ice engines, but they need FAR more weight in battery packs than a tank of fuel for comparable range so u cant exactly just replace the fuel tank with a battery pack and expect it to go far.

I’m pretty sure you can choose to install an entertainment center if you wish to. But why should those of us who do not want have to pay?

I know what you mean but it’s hard to believe.

However it’s easier to believe

1. A huge part of the us want a truck, even if they’d be better served by other vehicle types
2. When the goal is being modular, you can turn a truck into an suv, but not vice versa

The guy I'm replying to already explained why that is suboptimal for him.

Less spying is absolutely not why US manufacturers are scared of Chinese EVs, it's cheap labor and long term state backing. I have a bridge to sell to anyone who thinks Chinese EVs aren't spying, hahaha

I have never bought a new car and never had any intention to because of how bad of an investment they are. If slate comes through with half the features they've announced, then I'll be buying one after my 2013 Subaru Outback gives out. I play music and do lots of small rural work just outside of the city. A small truck for hauling would be perfect! I don't want a Superlift Mega Child Crusher x4500 with double crew cab, a bed 7ft off the ground and only 34 inches long, but hey, at least it has 15,000 pounds of towing capacity for when I am hauling my drum set across town or need to take plywood to my mom's house.

At least in the silicon valley I think they got a jump from the "cool" factor over everything else that could use the HOV lane. A good friend of mine was working for a company and the SVP had I think a Bentley and a top of the line 911 but drove a Prius to work every day purely to use the HOV lane. That type of person was more than happy to buy a 6 figure S to ditch his Prius...

I’ve spent the last year teasing my older brother for buying a full sized truck, now that he no longer has a house or property. Joke is on me though, he just bought a huge camper to tow with it. I guess he does have use, at least a couple days of the year

I’d rather have China spy on me than US corporations or state. I don’t live in China and have no fear that their surveillance will result in a fascist goon at my doorstep.

Gotcha, thank you for that. So they DO have a screen, but its normally in use for the speed/charge gauge cluster, etc. Good solution.

Every single new car is a connected car. If your data is going to be collected, I’d rather have it collected by China than Palantir.

That's where I'm at. What's China realistically going to do with that data?? If I'm going to be spied on no matter what I'd rather have it be done by a country across the world and get a reasonably priced EV too.

I'd rather neither collect my data, but in this case it's worse than that.

Hreszczuk runs Fortify Labs in Canberra and specialises in car security. His job was simple: find out what BYD, or anyone with access to BYD’s systems in China, could see and do to the vehicle remotely. He didn’t expect it to be quick.

“It was easier than we were expecting.” Hreszczuk says.

That wasn’t just an offhand comment. Hreszczuk makes a living finding ways to break into cars, so the fact that he was surprised by how easy it was is significant. Even he didn’t expect to get access so quickly or find so little standing in his way.

The entry point had no password at all. There was nothing protecting it. That one weakness gave Hreszczuk a way into the software that controls many of the car’s functions. After spending two weeks exploring the system and testing what he could do, he was ready to show the results in a real-world demonstration.
“Sitting by the side of the country road, he demonstrates what can be done with remote access to a vehicle. First, he locks the doors while I’m inside, blasts music over the speakers and plays images on the BYD’s giant infotainment screen.” reads the report published by ABC News. “Then, as I drive, he remotely switches the wipers on at top speed, sprays the windscreen with water and turns the lights on and off.”

While Four Corners reporter Angus Grigg was driving the BYD at about 30 km/h along a straight country road, Hreszczuk controlled parts of the vehicle from his laptop. He locked the doors remotely, turned up the music through the speakers and displayed random images on the infotainment screen. He then switched the windscreen wipers to their highest setting, sprayed the windscreen and repeatedly turned the headlights on and off. At the same time, a recorded voice played through the speakers, warning the driver to use low beam.

Then things became more serious. Hreszczuk switched the headlights off completely while Grigg was still driving the car in the dark.

He was not able to control everything. The brakes and cameras were protected by stronger security measures, so he could not access them. But the test still showed what could happen if someone gained remote access to a connected vehicle. Imagine the same attack taking place at 100 km/h, on a winding road at night, with the driver suddenly losing control of the lights and having the wipers running at full speed. The potential danger is obvious.

• https://securityaffairs.com/199460/hacking/a-byd-shark-6-hack-shows-the-risks-of-connected-cars.html

This is my experience as well. I think it's arrogance to a degree "we've been making cars for 140 years, we know how do it" - and then they fail miserably.

Show me a single non-EV car for sale that doesn't raise all the same objections

Hilarious. That’s the point.

I would buy one if I were in a position for a new vehicle. I drive a combustion Silverado for hauling metal, but it's just now being paid off. Once I run it into the ground I world love to have an EV equivalent. It has a ton of range and the Silverado actually have a volume knob lol. But I'd very much like to avoid spending $100k, having a car payment for the last 6 years wasn't great 😕

Well... Yes.

There’s no mention of how it’s possible to do this with other cars. This just reads as an anti-China anti-BYD hit piece to me.

F150 and Silverado are the two most commonly crashed vehicles.

They're also the most common vehicles on US roads.

Small cars have all but disappeared from the market, even a Civic is HUGE compared to a Civic from 20 years ago... but it's also a lot safer (check the crash tests between similar vehicles from the 1990s and contemporary ones).

I'm in Canada and for winter driving up north you definitely want a larger vehicle with decent ground clearance.

You're right, the foreign prices are higher because of tariffs and other govt fees, shipping, storage, etc. and markups added by dealers because they can. But the end prices tend to be 25-30% less than other EVs with similar basic specs (minus frills).

The smartphone like gadgets and flash are not built to drive and live with every day.

Those features exist for the salesperson to dazzle you with. Some people see a large LCD or shiny wheels and their lizard brain takes over.

Rivian gas vehicles have zero sensors. Checkmate athiests!