honestly i only see dawn from the wrong end these days. sleep deprivation sucks

It’s pretty obvious the American government doesn’t care about its citizens health. Sick citizens = more shareholder profits for their scam corporations

bring me coffee and all is forgiven

my wife and i only have one car because y'know poverty and i drive her to and from work once or twice a week because it's nice. we're going to start calling any pedestrian children Geese now because of you I love it.

Yeah, arguing definitions vs what's actually practical is a new one for me in the DST discussion. Just goes to show you that people would rather appear right than do what's useful.

Then change the hours of the jobs, not the clocks.

Everybody loses an hour of sleep in the spring which results in a statistical spike in hospital admittance for heart problems and car accidents.

Pedants, not persnicks.

No, persnicks. You know how you're behaving.

OP didn't back up their assertion with data. They don't see kids; I do see kids. It's all anecdotal.

Quick searching shows a CDC survey from 2017 estimating that a little over 15% of American kids walk to school. More recent data would require more time to find than I have right now, but even if it's as low as 1 in 10 now, that's still not nothing.

Today has been the absolute worst. Daylight savings shift coinciding with my job becoming absolute trash and my idiotic self doing a Sunday funday yesterday.

"East Coast" doesn't provide enough information. If you look at a map of America and draw a straight line south from the western end of Massachusetts, it doesn't really touch another state at all, just the ocean. What really needs to happen is that the Northeast needs to be in a different time zone, and then we stick to standard time. But as it is now, it really sucks being in EST in the winter in the northeast, which is why so many of us prefer permanent DST, when given the choice without the option of being in a different time zone.

Okay ty

Every time the time switches there's a spike in car accidents, heart attacks, etc. Also, time should just be constant imo, arbitrarily shifting it an hour twice a year seems stupid to me.

That fucks with everything else though, eg childcare.

There's a lot of things that I don't like about Arizona but the abolishment of moving to and from DST has been such a great thing to have.

Who could be for keeping that around?

It screws corporations as well, anyone that has a database or deals with time in any way. I'd call it a huge hazard technilogically to willy nilly change the time for no reason.

Nobody schedules things around solar noon you psycho.

The sun goes up and down at the same time, nothing changes except the stupid marker they should leave alone.

A sensational story sabbatoged it.

They are morons. Because the day didn't change, only the marker did. So stupid.

Well that was a non article.

Committing to standard time has health benefits and allows us to end the biannual tug of war between our biological and alarm clocks,” said AMA Trustee Alexander Ding, M.D., M.A, MBA.

So are they saying committing to standard time, or simply committing to a single time?

If they are saying Standard is better that Daylight Savings, then they are complete morons. And it isnt because I like one over the other. The fact is IT DOESNT FUCKING MATTER. Just pick one.

Daylight is constantly changing, depending on what latitude you are in. In the northern hemisphere millions of people will gain over an hour of daylight this month alone. Your rhythms are effected by people fucking with the clock, and that is it.

Who are you saying are morons here? The doubters or the sleep experts?

AMA....Ask Maria Anything, right?

I'm interested to know what the percentage was throughout time.

The sleep "experts". Complete bullshit. They could say changing the time causes an issue, but this shift daylight earlier is complete bullshit.

1. Because daylight is constantly changing. Millions of people will get nearly an hour more daylight this month alone, because thats the way the earth works. It is rapid increase in the spring, and rapid decrease in the fall.
2. Time is artificial. Call it 3 in morning, call it 10 in the morning. It doesn't matter. A person can get up when ever they want. Their rhythm can dictate it, not the clock.

Morons.

Pick one or the other, but don't change the time. Either choice is equally as good, there is NO difference.

Fuck that. Keep daylight savings time and end standard time. I like my daylight when I can actually use it; after work.

Who makes money off of Daylight Savings Time?

I don't know, but I know someone is making a fortune off of it somehow and I want to know who. It's the only explanation

Think of this way, it's healthier to rise with the sun. That's how we've evolved for billions of years.

It's unhealthy to rise an hour before the sun. It's unnatural.

Call it 3 in morning, call it 10 in the morning.

??? It's not what we call it. It's when the sun actually rises. Like it or not we've arranged our society to start at 8 am (or 9 am in some places), so no we can't get up whenever we want.

And you do understand our circadian rythyms are connected to the sun right? The sun dictates our rhythms, not the other way around.

I also prefer solar noon, but standard time is close enough, and I already said I'm fine with splitting the difference.

Think of this way, it’s healthier to rise with the sun.

Lots of places don't have sun at all, or have little sun in the winter. People cannot get up with the sun. Again, the earth is constantly changing what that means, and also varies alot based on where you live.

Like it or not we’ve arranged our society to start at 8 am

No. No we haven't. People do things at all hours. Also, see the point above.

And you do understand our circadian rythyms are connected to the sun right? The sun dictates our rhythms, not the other way around.

Ok, so get up when that happens if you want. It has NOTHING to do with the arbitrary time we assign to a clock. The day does NOT care what number we assign to it.

People have serious health effects because of DST, too

https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2023/7-things-to-know-about-daylight-saving-time

Hospital and factory workers first shift usually starts at 6:00-7:00.

It's so they can make more money more people die because of time changes, anyway.

Lots of places don’t have sun at all,

So your argument is that because extremes exist, fuck everyone on the planet? Like what kind of logic is that?

eople do things at all hours.

So your argument is that because extremes variations exist, fuck everyone on the planet? Like what kind of logic is that?

Ok, so get up when that happens if you want.

What? Like I said, we've arranged our society around 8 am. The vast vast vast vast vast majority of people have no choice in the matter.

Honestly I'm not sure you understand that we have (had?) aligned our time schedule to the sun. Daylight savings shifts that time schedule to be OUT of schedule to our sun. Yes the numbers themselves are arbitrary, but we have (had?) actually sceduled it to align with the sun. And it is daylight savings that wants to shift that so that we effectively have to get up an hour earlier because work/school starts at 8 am and doesn't change.

They are not extremes. It is different at different latitudes, be quite a bit. However the extremes prove the point.

we’ve arranged our society around 8 am.

No we haven't, sorry. There are plenty of people who would say that is 6. Plenty of people who would say that is 9.

Again, go look at what happens at different latitudes and times of year. You will see that this argument that there is a morning by the sun that is universal and stays the same all year round fails.

Shifting the arbitrary number does not change that. Their argument is complete nonsense.

Lol no sun is an extreme.

Yeah at this point you're just in denial about how the vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast to the 10 power live. This is just like the extremes thing, you seem to want to take the idea that since extremes exist, in this case that some people have different schedules, then everything for everyone everywhere goes out the window and everything everywhere is arbitrary and made up and doesn't matter.

Shifting the arbitrary number

Again, we are not shifting a number. Daylight savings effectively means we have to wake up an hour earlier because yes we've arranged our society for 8 am.

Honestly I'm gonna peace out. The longer this goes the clearer it's a case of Dunning Kruger.

An hour earlier and the daylight they receive is different all over the planet depending on the time of the year.

You really should stop and think about what I am trying to tell you. This is not too difficult to understand. Think about time zones even, the people on the boarder at some places have very different times the sun is up. Look at a daylight map of the latitude and year times.

But most importantly: I went and looked at the paper and the intent: Their argument is that we should quit changing. They just picked one. It could be the other one, it makes no difference, they just want it to stop changing. As any rational human should.

Ok I said I was going to peace out, but unfortunately I have to return.

But most importantly: I went and looked at the paper and the intent: Their argument is that we should quit changing. They just picked one. It could be the other one, it makes no difference, they just want it to stop changing. As any rational human should.

From the article:

move permanently to standard time.

Standard time.

sleep experts say that standard time (which shifts daylight hours earlier in the morning) aligns best with human circadian biology.

Standard time.

But research shows permanent daylight saving time overlooks potential health risks that can be avoided by establishing permanent standard time instead,”

Standard time.

That means you are illiterate.

Please consider this in the future before tellling everyone they are wrong. Peace.

But for some reason people freak out if you suggest we just start things later in December. See the other commenter who said I could just get up earlier…

You know they understand parents. Also it messes with my sleep

So you read nothing I wrote. You also read an article. I went and read papers and the publication. Which by the way is more of a report and a summary than a peer reviewed study.

The thrust of the publications is: quit changing the time.

The time they landed on (again I think they are morons for the reasons I explained) is they think it is likely to benefit more people, but not everyone. When taking into account all other factors, including time zones, yearly changes of the earth, latitudes, there is no one size fits all, it just MAY fit slightly better.

Yeah, you probably should just quit talking to me, because it seems no matter how much evidence I provide, you are just going to fall back to arguing about it.

I have been to so many places that choose to do this. Winter hours can be a thing!

You should read more into this. The detrimental health effects aren't linked to going permantly to DST, but from switching back and forth between DST and standard time.

The real question is, how can the rich make money off of changing this? As soon as someone figures that out, I'm sure it will change.

We have been changing the time for 70+ years. Nothing about it is Willy nilly. There is a reason. The reason may invalid at this point.

This same bullshit could be said about jetlag simply moving to a different time zone has worse effects than a single hour shift, yet many people do it 10s if not hundreds of times a year.

It's so stupid to argue about this whole thing from a health perspective and using that as if its some kind of disease.

So stupid

To work indoors.

It seems to be worse to spring forward, is the point. It doesn't align with the most prevalent circadian rhythm in humans, although there are exceptions. I guess those people are just sol regardless, which is regrettable.