yeah, kde is da best... i tried to use some of the others but kde just works so much better

Unused ram is wasted ram. Change my mind

KDE is premier for a modern system, but I have a handful of low-power devices where XFCE or LXQt are a lot more useful despite disliking their interfaces.

XFCE is great for mid-range old devices, and LXQt is great for dogshit old devices.

I was actually just considering trying out a different DE like Cosmic or a compositor like Hyprland, but idk if it’s just a “grass is greener” thing or not. KDE’s got a lot going on for it and switching between QT and GTK is a pain, and I’ve never used a compositor so idk what to expect.

It's astonishing how little RAM KDE needs for its features.

I just prefer tiling windows managers idk

I read this same principle in an arch or gentoo forum/manual. I can't even think of an argument against it tho? Unused anything is wasted by definition isn't it? I know I'm missing something obvious somehow

right? I thought twms were almost exclusively for workflow efficiency only and this was like 15 years ago lol

This applies when RAM is used as temporary cache or something that can be instantly freed the moment it is needed otherwise. This doesn't really work for justifying higher RAM use by KDE, unless you would never need that RAM for anything else anyway.

I use KDE because it is good, though. Also I don't think KDE even uses more RAM than other DEs that are designed to be lightweight. Last time I compared, it used the same or less memory as LXDE.

They're for us dorks who like to like to chase efficiency in both screen real estate and keyboard navigation. A nice TWM combined with either a 21:9 or (my personal favorite) 16:18 ratio is pure bliss.

Moved from KDE to hyperland, while keeping some of the ecosystem, like KDE PIM, Dolphins, Okular and the other standard apps.

Best decision for my daily work I made in a long time

Idk about little. I was playing around with an old laptop dual booting Fedora KDE and W11. And Fedora on fresh boot was using the same/more ram than 11.

I switched my work PC to Pop a couple months ago and seriously gave Cosmic a try.

I had issues with it remembering screen positions and monitor settings would get reset to default on every boot. I installed KDE last week and it was like changing to a comfortable pair of shoes. Everything magically started working exactly how it should.

You've just convinced me to wipe my Arch install with SwayWM and go back to Fedora with KDE. I really just love all of the features that it has!

Last time I've checked KDE couldn't handle independent virtual desktops per monitor and my tiling manger can so...

XFCE is great for mid-range old devices, and LXQt is great for dogshit old devices.

What's this device in your scale from old doghit to old mid-range?

Runs a full Plasma session just fine. The problem isn't the desktop, it's the web browsers, especially Firefox. Falkon runs OK.

Funny, I switched from Fedora with RiverWM to CachyOS (arch based) with KDE.

Just give me more monitors and I’m happy.

That's fine. I'm running two DualUps (16:18) with a TWM, and it's amazing. I wish they weren't a discontinued display, or else I'd add a third.

A proper scrolling wm functionality for plasma (working with activities and multiple screens) and I'd never go back to anything else.

I gotta use Ubuntu 22.04 for work and paperWM is already so close to the perfect workflow on that old system. ❤️

It’s all about the workflow efficiency for me, not RAM. And the tilers for KDE and Gnome have always been unreliable in my experience.

Well, e. g. unused weapon is not really waste, is it?

Cosmic is still beta but I'm excited for it none-the-less as I use Gnome with all the cosmic extensions today. I just find that KDE feels dated and limited and Cosmics ease of customizability is very appealing

Also I don’t think KDE even uses more RAM than other DEs that are designed to be lightweight. Last time I compared, it used the same or less memory as LXDE.

Firefox without any website loaded uses more RAM than a full Plasma session.

Ah, a fellow DualUp evangelist. it's a pity they didn't catch on that much.

So that's effectively 2 monitors in a single case?

Stop, I can only get so erect.

Nobody here was talking about PedOS until you brought it up Comrade

It really is a shame. I think right out the door being only 60hz probably hurt their adoption. But really, the ratio just doesn't shine with your average, floating WM that most users are only accustomed to.

KDE is cool, but i was a heavy shortcut user even on Windows. Me discoovering Hyprland is akin to a drug-addict trying out heroine, because i can't go back now.

It's literally two panels without a bezel between. You can run full-screen with one input, or go into PIP mode and drive each individual panel with a different input.

I was playing around with an old laptop dual booting Fedora KDE and W11. And Fedora on fresh boot was using the same/more ram than 11.

Windows compresses RAM these days, not sure if Fedora does by default. Also, by itself Windows is surprisingly RAM efficient. I think it's a holdover from Windows 8 which was developed for tablets when Microsoft tried competing with iPads.

The problems arise when web views like the news widget load. Then all the past optimizations no longer matter.

It's just really oversimplifying memory usage. OS designers had that same thought decades ago already, so they introduced disk caching. If data gets loaded from disk, then it won't be erased from memory as soon as it isn't needed anymore. It's only erased, if something else requests memory and this happens to be the piece of "free" memory that the kernel thinks is the most expendable.

For example, this is what the situation on my system looks like:

free -h
               total        used        free      shared  buff/cache   available
Mem:            25Gi       9,8Gi       6,0Gi       586Mi       9,3Gi        15Gi

Out of my 32 GiB physical RAM, 25 GiB happens to be usable by my applications, of which:

• 9.8 GiB is actually reserved (used),
• 9.2 GiB is currently in use for disk caching and buffers (buff/cache), and
• only 6.1 GiB is actually unused (free).

If you run cat /proc/meminfo, you can get an even more fine-grained listing.

I'm sure, I could get the number for actually unused memory even lower, if I had started more applications since booting my laptop. Or as the Wikipedia article I linked above puts it:

Usually, all physical memory not directly allocated to applications is used by the operating system for the page[/disk] cache.

So, if you launch a memory-heavy application, it will generally cause memory used for disk caching to be cleared, which will slow the rest of your system down somewhat.

Having said all that, I am on KDE myself. I do not believe, it's worth optimizing for the speed of the system, if you're sacrificing features that would speed up your usage of it. Hell, it ultimately comes down to how happy you are with your computer, so if it makes you happy, then even gaudy eye-candy can be the right investment.
I just do not like these "unused RAM is wasted RAM" calls, because it is absolutely possible to implement few features while using lots of memory, and that does slow your system down unnecessarily.

I guess that’s the only reason I’m considering trying something else, KDE is great because it’s got so many options, but also it’s got too many options you gotta mess with to get it looking just ok.

Not a fan of either so I’ll just watch

KDE Plasma can do that, too, via a KWinscript: https://codeberg.org/anametologin/Krohnkite 🙃

On a more serious note, this is a genuine recommendation. I've been using Krohnkite and similar scripts for a few years now, and they're absolutely fine, especially since Plasma 6 introduced a native, manual tiling mechanism, which they just have to configure.
Especially for newbies wanting to try out tiling window management, without having to figure out a minimalist environment like a bare window manager, this is a great entrypoint IMHO.

Yeah, it likely won't support that any time soon, because it's incompatible with Extended Window Manager Hints standard.

Having said that, Plasma 6.6 (which just came out) allows for having only a single virtual desktop on non-primary monitors, which is all I wanted, personally...

Did you try on KDE since Plasma 6 came out? It introduced a native, manual tiling mechanism, which just needs to be configured by a KWinscript to make it automatic, so it still feels native when you resize the tiles. I'm pretty happy with Krohnkite these days either way...

And apparently discontinued. Goddammit.

Yeah, that's what I was lamenting. I want to add a third to my array, but stock is depleted everywhere and there's no sign yet they will manufacture an updated model.

If you don't use Gnome or KDE or one of the other big DEs, do you basically have no (user facing GUI) programs installed by default? If so, don't you end up installing a bunch of programs from one of those anyway?

what? yes, an unused weapon is still a wasted weapon. I know I'm missing something tho

They open as tiles not windows, look up hyprland

I think most window managers typically come with just a fee GUI apps preinstalled, but most users install more.

It basically favors keyboard only use over mouse

Maybe it is a wasted weapon, but is it really a waste? Can weapon be considered wasted?

Thats cool and all but hyprland and dank material shell are just too good for me to switch off of.

Can we try a different example or a declarative statement that negates my implied claim that in any case where a thing is unused, it must be categorized as waste by definition? The previous questions seem obviously clarifying of nothing. I know they're probably clarifying once your point is known, but because the point remains unknown to me, I can only perceive them as empty Socratic dialogue? I know it's not, I'm just trying to express more definitively how confused I'm getting lol

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The problem with the simplified phrase is that your computer is expected to run more than one program at a time.

If you are only running one program, it should certainly use all the RAM of your system.

However, your desktop, laptop, phone, tablet, game console, etc. all run hundreds or thousands of programs at the same time. Each individual application should optimize RAM usage so the whole system can work together.

Another commenter in the chain talks about disk caching, which is what the phrase "unused ram is wasted ram" came from

It's been coopted by application programmers who don't want to optimize their software

I got fed up doing the integration work for a window manager eventually and replicated my needs well enough with KDE.