How much worse is it privacy wise for me to give them access to my contacts?

Personally I wouldn't give Facebook and Meta access to the list of people I know with their names, phone numbers, and some addresses.

It's disrespectful of their privacy, not only your own.

This is literally the main thing Meta is interested in. DO NOT EVER DO THAT, please.

This app can be used as a work around to add contacts in WhatsApp: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/dev.theolm.wwc/

Or this one: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.vinaygopinath.launchchat/

I've been refusing to give them permission for about 5 years now, and the only ill effect I've really had is not having a name associated with the contact when texting them

You need to ask your contacts if that's ok. Not us.

Yeah, here in Germany, we've had a verdict that you need to get written permission from all your contacts, if you give WhatsApp access to their data: https://www.rv.hessenrecht.hessen.de/bshe/document/LARE190000029

I would assume, the same is true in the entire EU.

DOB, relationships, photos. Multiple email addresses, etc.

No. Meta is a data harvesting company. Any points of data you give them is bad, privacy-wise.

And don't believe the claptrap that WhatsApp is "safe" from prying eyes or truly E2EE. Meta is not and has never been trustworthy, and they have been caught lying on countless occasions.

Use their products at your own peril.

bro pretty much all of them use WhatsApp, let's be real

what if I need to use it?

but it doesn't show u ppls names, and when you have a lot of ppl on the app, it's impossible to keep track od them...

also ur carrier knows ur contact list aswell...

yeah, how do you keep track of their names?

but everyone I know uses them and no, they're not switching to signal...

what about signal?

what about signal, is that illegal aswell?

are the terms that you accept when using WhatsApp real enough for you?

You provide us, in accordance with applicable laws, the phone numbers in your mobile address book on a regular basis, including those of both the users of our Services and your other contacts. You confirm you are authorized to provide us such numbers to allow us to provide our Services.

It is also inconvenient in many other ways, because Meta makes it intentionally annoying to use WhatsApp without contact permissions 🤷

And no, your carrier does not have access to your phone's contact list. There is a lot more privacy relevant details in it than pure calling information.

Yes they do, when I message them via sms, which I've done w most od my contacts list

well most ppl in the EU use WhatsApp and give wa access to their contacts....

what about signal...

No, why would give sending SMS give access to your contact list? The carrier has no system access to the phone contacts app.

Edit: The phone contact app includes a lot more details than just the number. Names, alternative numbers, associated email addresses etc are all in the contacts app and potentially accessible to WhatsApp.

What the carrier has is no different to what WhatsApp gets when you use a number on their service.

Well, then y'all can enjoy your loss of privacy. I'm not telling you what to do, but that is the consequence of using their products.

Can you have separate WhatsApp contacts to your phone contacts? Maybe copy them manually to WhatsApp if needed?

u can't do that without giving it permission to all contacts

I know, but they don't give a fuck, and I need to keep up with my friends somehow.

Ah shame

The bigger question is why are your so-called friends not respecting your privacy? Anyone who wouldn't switch to signal for me is not someone I would want to call a friend.

But as the other person said, no it's not safe to use WhatsApp.

What happens if you don't get them?

Maybe just don't use WhatsApp at all?

Or use it in a privacy handbox like Blackbox or a work profile.

Not with that attitude (like, unironically speaking, you have to be more insistent)

Actually, some carrier and SMS apps do need that permission.

An SMS app provided by the carrier? That seems highly unusual.

I use Launch Chat for the occasional use. You can paste the number there and press a button to open whatsapp dms for given number. Been using it for a very long time without contacts access and never faced an issue, installed from fdroid repo.

You hope that you don't get sued... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Obviously, the vast majority of people never get sued over this, but if you don't like someone, it's one of those lawsuits you can throw at pretty much anyone and they'll likely be guilty.

Yeah, some do that because that way they have even more control over your data and can trap you in their shitty plans.

Then use it? You don't have to give it your contacts.

I've not read an actual answer to your question in the comments so far.

If you live somewhere where WhatsApp is the dominant chat app, then you are already a data point for Meta. Unless nobody has your phone number in their contacts.

If you're concerned about a specific entry in your list of contacts, then it depends on your own point of view. You could use the same logic a above to justify sharing it. You could also decide that you don't like that logic and you do not.

So, how much worse is it? Probably inconsequential.

Just to add some aluminium; when using whatsapp your phone data (brand, android version, etc) are added to big data.

I believe whats app is 'true' e2ee, as its easy to audit. Meta couldnt really give a shit about your messages. However, having access to your device is a Goldmine

gl keeping track of all the phone numbers...

I do that too, but I got way too many ppl on wa and its hard to keep track of them.

So you want all your contacts to show up within the app?

because they don't care about privacy and I also need business associates on there...

how am I their friend if I'm forcing them to care about something they don't care about.

also they "want to give meta their data so that the algorithm keeps them on the app as long as possible", since they got nothing to do. also these friends are more like colleagues than anything else, but I need to keep up with them because of work

I just want to have their names instead of phone numbers....

For which whatsapp will need to know their names and numbers... You do see the problem right?

You wouldn't be forcing them to care about something they don't care about. You don't have to care about privacy to use signal.

I have friends from all walks of life that message me on signal because that's all I use, most of them don't care about privacy. To them it's just another messaging app like WhatsApp, messenger, discord, etc.

But I guess that's unfortunately not an option in your particular circumstance

yup sadly it ain't

I do, but I have like 50 PPL ON WHATSAPP, HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO KEEP TRACK OF THEM

they just said no, I respect that

EVERYONE IN MY COUNTRY USES WHATSAPP, YOU CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT WA HERE YK...

Write their names and numbers down in a notebook, or a seperate offline notes app on your phone.

Seems a little silly but this is what you get if you insist on using such a terrible app

EVERYONE IN MY COUNTRY USES WHATSAPP, YOU CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT WA HERE YK...

Same thing probably could have been said about my country (Germany) 10 years ago, and look where we're at now.

I spontaneously deleted my WhatsApp account a few years ago and haven't regretted it once. When people suddenly can't contact you through WhatsApp anymore, they can still use SMS (which is horrible as well but still better than any services by Meta) or hopefully give in at some point and also use Signal.

Also, do those friends of yours know that you don't have to immediately abandon WhatsApp to use Signal? Both can be used simultaneously, like many of my family and relatives do, and I see almost no logical reason to refuse that.