Lack of moderation and a flood of botnets and employed hostile actors is what could kill the fediverse, like what is happening with Twitter, Reddit, FaceBook, or YouTube.

I believe it was !piracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com.

Lemmy world is probably owned by a corporation. Since they're the largest instance, they can control the hot page. ML is ran by the original developers of lemmy. They are full of pro communism accounts. I'll let you decide if that's cool.

Lemmy World definitely curates (shadow bans) people's feed. ML probably does too.

If you're not that political, don't worry about it.

It's libs Vs commies on an instance level. And, with Lemmy being a Western online space, libs are more numerous. 👍

Don't believe a word of this, it was all hyped up by Big Fedi to drive up clicks

Out of curiosity, why not make an account on one of the anarchist flotilla instances?

Hey, I'm aware I have my own biases. I've tried to describe the situation in a fair and reasoned way as best I can, based off the experiences I've had over the last 3.5 years, including before lemmy.world even started, your experience may differ from mine and that's okay. I donate quarterly to the Lemmy devs and occasionally to my homeserver's foundation, so please feel free to accuse me of bias in either way.

Calling them dead or about to be killed, is a wide stretch. All of them do got some dips and people leaving these sites, but I don't see a big rush away, as the content is still there. With YouTube you don't have an alternative. With Twitter some went to Mastodon, some to Bluesky and some to Trump Twitter. Reddit is still doing good and Facebook... The whole concept is not doing well.

For all it's important, including fediverse is the content. Let just focus on Lemmy and Reddit. With Reddit you did have communities splitting of abusive mods. With Lemmy you suddenly have some general purpose communities on different instances and you need to figure out which one is worth following. Some communities quickly die off and they go back to reddit, as there are more users for that community. This alone is hurting whole Lemmy. When you then have somewhat active communities across different Instances, because they think, their instance is better or the other instances sucks, then you split the community more.

To survive you need content and active communities. Reddit still has a lot of that and Lemmy is trying to get more, but their design makes it hard to keep it together. Lemmy has just a few options to survive long term. Get more people and content, so the fragmentation doesn't play a huge role. Change the design, to prevent fragmentation or the users stop fighting and stop fragmenting the content and try to agree on one community and the others get deleted.

Stuff like Mastodon/Bluesky don't have such a huge problem, as it's about a single person and not a community.

Try looking at Gell-Mann amnesia, CIA meddling and psyops, psychological denial to the point of being unable to consider different perspectives and explanations and get back to me.

You can likely pick almost any other instance if that's piracy

Friend, I like you and what good are accusations without possible alternatives, which I offered in response to another post, here: https://kbin.earth/m/asklemmy@lemmy.world/t/3291428/-/comment/15029715

It there some alternative raising up?

What are your views on the genocides of Ukrainians and the Uyghurs?

YouTube MAU peaked in 2023 and long form videos are crashing down in views across the entire site.

Short form creators don't really make any money to begin with so they have no future on the platform.

How far it will fall, nobody knows, but if the equivalent happened to a smaller company it would be fatal.

Anything more on the shadow banning? I did catch my account being shadow banned on another instance (not world or ml).

I think the community would turn quickly against any big instance shadow banning folk. That's what the tesseract mess was about.

It's over blown tribalism imo. There's a handful of accounts that are always fighting each other. The rest are just normal people.

You've been offered our views multiple times and refused to consider for an instant. I'm not doing it again. You know where to find the information and reflect.

ML probably does too.

it's news to me if it does, got any example?

What are your views on the genocides of Ukrainians and the Uyghurs?

Only thing I know is someone has a bug up their craw about .ml and made a bunch of accounts to repost .ml stuff to .world. It was kinda a good thing because I think this user is part of the reason my attitude toward blocking being an overall good thing evolved. I mean I realized it before from mmo chats but I think it kinda solidifed it for me. Other than that there is grousing from folks but overall I just block communities im not interested in and users that interact in ways im not cool with.

you catch these notions? I feel like there’s this Friday night after work drinks I’ve never been to, so I missed out on all the office gos.

they really pulled them out of their ass from what i can tell. easier to argue against caricatures than real people

I can't even respond to them and expect a reply because i'm instance banned from piefed.social (rimu doesn't like me, got banned around the time of this post )

Hold on here...did I accidentally join a gang?

Yeah, it's been proven to me over and over again. I post a lot of politics and some never get seen. Sometimes it's a lag in the federation, but a lot of times it's not.

Also, I was originally with world and one particular admin, who is still there, was removing comments and also curating in the beginning. That's why I'm no longer there. He sent some shitty messages complaining that I removed all of my content. I'm not the first to complain, but world keeps him. That should tell you something.

It's disappointing. Most people would probably ever know. As I said, I post a lot, so it's more obvious.

Edit: Right now, my feed is being stopped from seeing the second page or autoscrolling. I had to find another way to see this post.

I don't. They are so militant about communism, that I wouldn't be surprised. They might be just a more open sort of banning. I remember people complaining when I first got here that they were banned for mentioning Tienanmen square and other things like that. I have no personal experience. That's why I said probably.

They’re not communists. They’re tankies: nationalistic authoritarians who defend police state brutality and “alternative facts” to spread disinformation courtesy of Russia and China. They’re obsessed with a west vs east dialectic.

Also, I don’t think you mean liberals strictly, but socialists — demsoc, socdem, anarchists, whatever.

Anarchists don’t respect nation states or arbitrary class divisions, which clashes hard with tankies’ rabid nationalism.

dbzer0 is anarchists, not communists.

they suffer from the same delusional idealism though, and belief that anyone who doesn't think like them should be murdered.

they are exhausting.

any state where you can get evicted by the cops for not paying rent is authoritarian

the act of overthrowing that situation is going to be authoritarian too.

i know which one i would prefer.

it's impossible to be free from authority while other competing states exist. in the name of self defense until every remaining capitalist state is overthrown any adversarial political economy is going to need to retain some level of authority

people kill the fediverse because they can't keep their insane beliefs to themselves, and feel compelled to harass and intimate anyone who doesn't share their beliefs.

including the incessant demonization of anyone who isn't as extreme as they are.

As an aside, do you remember the days of !fediverselore@lemmy.ca? I think there were a solid chunk of people on Lemmy that lived for the 'net drama, grudges, trolling, flamewars and squabbling between instances, users and everyone in between.

It was petty more often than not, but I won't lie, sometimes those threads got kind of interesting to me.

til

CI@ spy op

Who is "we"? Because Lemmygrad literally cheered when Russia invaded Ukraine. Doesn't seem like viewing things from the perspective of the invaded state.

i will say that based on the people i've interacted with that have been banned from here, i am glad that i'm not seeing their posts in my feed. one example being the guy who cross-posts 100% of content from .ml to .world, having him blocked on all his n+1 alts means i don't have to deal with duplicates in my feed.

from my experience usually people doing things like 'mentioning tiananmen square' are doing more than just that, often they throw in an insult while redbaiting or dehumanizing. they then go to rend their garments in their preferred hugbox about how censored they were by the evil tankies.

No you libtard! Marx wanted name calling and calls for slaughter of entire nations.

Remember, ever threatening and ever weak and disgusting enemy is the base idea behind communism.

There is no ‘deal’

There are some extremely active and vocal users on .ml that have a specific view point that they feel is extremely important.

You will see that viewpoint expressed not just on political posts, but in the comments of seemingly unrelated topics.

It seems that .ml was defederated from world to keep some separation of that view point and other topics.

You are still fully free to join any instance you want. You can even find community here to post that content if you wish, but there is a more active and vibrant community on .ml for that content.

It seems that .ml was defederated from world to keep some separation of that view point and other topics.

.ml is still federated with .world

are you thinking of hexbear.net or lemmygrad.ml ?

i don't see it as east/west tribalism or nationalism at play, it's generally people identifying what they see as a lesser evil in the situation. when it's not interactions with hostile liberals i see plenty of earnest discussion in these spaces, literally 'putin is someone lenin would have had shot'.

for me if i'm referring to liberals it's anyone with a reformist orientation towards capitalism. if people are pushing that then they are more likely to compromise on important issues if given any individual power

MLs share my analysis of capitalism and imperialism. i can have disagreements with them about organization and process while agreeing on the fundamentals. plus they won’t call the cops on me.

with liberals half the time i’m arguing about whether capitalism is even the problem, or having to point out to them that war is actually bad. that’s a much bigger gap than disagreeing about revolutionary strategy.

Yeah, maybe? I've stayed away.

Having strong opinions about reforming vs overthrowing capitalism doesn’t make you a tankie. Defending Russian and Chinese totalitarianism does.

i mean it's up to you if you believe me or not, i'm just relating my experience from this perspective.

They’re obsessed with a west vs east tribalism and nationalism.

Having strong opinions about reforming vs overthrowing capitalism doesn’t make you a tankie.
Authoritarianism and defense of state violence and the Russians and Chinese dictatorships certainly does.

isn't this just the tribalism that you were just complaining about?
every state is authoritarian and has plenty state violence, if i'm going to have issues with that it's going to be with the states i actually live in.

not wanting to engage with propaganda narratives about state enemies from my own state doesn't mean it's automatically a defense of what other states are doing

"See, the problem is, that this is the fediverse," the Cat said. "You are now among weird people."
"But I don’t want to be among weird people here," OP remarked.
"Oh, you can’t help that," said the Cat: "we’re all weird here. I’m weird. You’re weird."
"How do you know I’m weird?" said OP.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn’t have come here."

• Alice in Wonderland, probably.

One other point on this I got a couple month instance ban from little spez on .ml for talking about the genocides of Ukrainians and the Uyghurs and I've never got one on .world for defending Palestine and talking shit about Israel

.ml was another instance I was already aware of at the time, back then I didn’t know people formed opinions based on which instance you’re with either

Be mindful that it's often just a handful accounts that post this stuff.

Well, alright, it's actually 36 accounts with the username "cm0002", but you get the idea.

It’s more about recognizing what kind of biases the user will likely be approaching a given topic with. .ml users obviously tend to skew towards viewing world events through a very specific lens, which then goes on to color how they interact with the rest of the fediverse.

The funny part is that when you’re a .ml user on .ml, it looks like smooth sailing and calm waters. Discussion is civil and friendly, and dissent all lands within a very specific Overton window. But once you start digging deeper, you realize it’s because the entire instance is extremely heavily moderated. It looks like everyone agrees because dissent outside of that tiny bandwidth quickly gets silenced. So as long as .ml users stay on their instance, things tend to be pretty chill.

This ironically leads to friction when those .ml users end up on external instances, because the .ml admins can’t moderate those as heavily. Plus those external users have likely seen and/or experienced the heavy-handed moderation firsthand. So they immediately assume .ml users are complicit and intentionally staying in their bubble, instead of simply being unaware.

Both of your instances are the worst, full of nuts with terrible takes. Really not sure which one I dislike more. I should probably block .world and .ml, but then my Lemmy would be empty :(.

I think my crossposting explainer should suit, in general, admins of .ml are Tankies (authoritarian communists) who support and defend authoritarian countries in all the things they do like Russia, NK and China.

They propagate Russian propaganda on Ukraine (They're just being "liberated"), deny chinas genocides and NK is actually truly a socialist country and it's authoritarianism is just western propaganda.

The megathread linked below documents and has a more robust explainer

You'll get banned for showing support for Ukraine or going against Russian narratives or if you remind them of Putlers promise to not invade or just shit talking Putler in general

Or calling out propaganda sites - https://lemmy.world/post/32776038 | https://lemmy.world/post/33416433 | https://lemmy.world/post/34051329 | https://lemmy.world/post/35919522

Or so much more, I actually haven't updated the megathread in a few months, but there's more recent stuff on !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works

Join the lemmy.ml boycott today and help foster a better Lemmy-verse! No more posts, comments (except to counter their propaganda ofc!) or upvotes on any comms on the Lemmy.ml instance! To make this easy you can do an instance block at Settings > Block Tab > Scroll to bottom > Input "lemmy.ml" and apply And consider donating to individual instances instead.

Why am I cross-posting .ml content?

I cross-post from .ml to the nearest relevant non-.ml comm to reduce the influence of .ml comms and indirectly, the instance as a whole, to help vitalize non-.ml comms and make it an easier decision for other instance admins to defederate because one key reason I identified that admins don't want to defederate is because .ml still has some very large comms and some active niche comms.

Megathread on the issue

Some highlights from the link:

Dessalines, head .ml admin, lead Lemmy dev actively spreading genocide denialism https://sh.itjust.works/post/61371958

.ml admin, Nutomics continued transphobia https://lemmy.world/post/29222558
The original transphobic Comment from Nutomic: https://lemmy.world/post/18236068

"If you don't support Russia then you just don't understand geopolitics" ~dessalines, .ml admin, dev https://lemmy.world/post/27352415

"Don't worry guys, the Uyghur Genocide was REALLY just birth control! ~dessalines, .ml admin, dev https://lemmy.world/post/30580167

"See! nobody died IN Tiananmen Square, just AROUND it, so it doesn't count!!" ~ Davel, .ml admin
https://lemmy.world/post/30673342

"NK is actually good and anything counter to that is Western propaganda!" ~dessalines, .ml admin, dev https://lemmy.world/post/31595035

General negative sentiment to other instances who haven't "seen the way" yet ~davel, .ml admin https://lemmy.world/post/27426510

And so so much documentation on clear heavy handed censorship and bias also on the link. So much I can't even put them all here because this comment would be really long.

I believe the behavior of its admins (the main admins are Lemmy devs) does harm to the overall growth of the Lemmy-verse and maybe even the Thrediverse (since Lemmy kinda kicked off the Thrediverse) because of its association with the devs of Lemmy and their insistence to use .ml as their personal political platform to spread harmful propaganda

On the outside, bringing up Lemmy frequently leads to comments like "Lemmy? Isn't that the place with a bunch of tankies?" Or "Tried Lemmy, but found it full of pro Russia crap so I left". The best way forward from that I see is to either widely defederate from .ml like the rest of the Triad, or pressure them to put a fair and unbiased as possible admin team.

Yup, it's just me who stands against .mls authoritarianism lmao

Admins of .ml promote and enforce authoritarianism here's a megathread on them

You'll get banned for showing support for Ukraine or going against Russian narratives or if you remind them of Putlers promise to not invade or just shit talking Putler in general

Or calling out propaganda sites - https://lemmy.world/post/32776038 | https://lemmy.world/post/33416433 | https://lemmy.world/post/34051329 | https://lemmy.world/post/35919522

Or so much more, I actually haven't updated the megathread in a few months, but there's more recent stuff on !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works