the newst tool happens to be the one doing the most destruction, so.. yes.

also: i do knit, lol. just a coincidence in example.

yes. indeed. two things can be true at once.

The cotton gin. The ink press. The player piano. Vhs. Photoshop. Audio in film.

You’re so wrong it’s laughable.

I don't see how this means he's wrong though, if people are hating AI as a proxy for hating their abusive relationship with their employer, that doesn't seem like a strong argument that everyone who isn't in that situation must also hate AI.

The invention of the light bulb.

That has been SO much worse than the negatives we've seen with AI.
If anyone is interested, that is a horrible story socially, industrially, environmentally, etc.
Definitely worth reading about.

I got banned from saying not all that is called ai is bad by giving video game npcs from the last decades as an example.

I thought it was just llms that they where against but nope. I imagine Alan Turing spinning in his grave.

That’s not how this works. If he edits that code to his specifications, even using an llm, he’s the author.

This is how it works everywhere else and this is how it will work in this situation.

That does change things a bit

Yeah that’s a great reply if you were trying to competitively comment but 99.9% of the online discourse against ai is completely against it. Including most of the discourse on this post.

Luddite is not the correct term. These folks are more dogmatic against Ai while Linus is literally talking about workers using it as a tool to make their work easier.

I fixed it to correctly compare it to the Amish. Who are just against all use of technology beyond a point.

Linus is very obviously talking about the worker using a tool.

Y’all found a fake pedantic win and rushed me on it because winning is more important than conversations. Kudos on that.

none of those are examples of things in our current era doing as much damage as ai lol. can you not comprehend the comment i made?

One example.

From my layperson understanding, the true program is not the lines of code, it's the model that lives in the programmer's brain. The code is just an extension of that.

If it needs debugging, it is the mental model that helps. If you need to add a feature, same thing. If a few years go by and no one remembers how the code works, rebuilding that mental model is the first step in making progress.

I suspect that it used to be that if someone contributed good code to the kernel project, it meant that they had a sufficient mental model. But with AI, it can seem like they do.

Maybe if you're Linus your understanding of the kernel is so strong it would take years to atrophy, if at all. I don't know. But developers in general?

Too many times in my work life, people have told me one thing, but it turns out that AI invented that and they didn't really know what they were talking about. On things that I'm an expert in, I can catch it. But if I'm not an expert, I don't realize the mistake until a consequence occurs.

Allowing AI is basically making it so the maintainers have to be complete experts in everything they accept. Maybe that was already the case, but that is my layperson understanding of it.

I don't think AI is the most destructive at all. AI is responsible for around 1% of carbon emissions (do your own research if you want a proper source). There are so many things, such as cars that emit way more than this.

As for job loss there are so many things that have eliminated so many more jobs. Tractors, knitting machines, production lines, automation in factories etc. No one says we should stop using tractors so we can have more jobs for farmers.

also: i do knit, lol. just a coincidence in example.

That's funny, I've got a half knitted scarf somewhere but I've never gotten into it properly.

Maybe the rule should be that if you use AI, just make sure Linus can’t tell you did.

It doesn't mean he's wrong! it means he's out of touch and doing the propaganda work of capital for free much like many other self-employed/business owning/petit-borgeois people who think they're on the side of capital.

It also means that his praise for and indeed positive experience with this "tool" is largely irrelevant to the broader social/economic discourse surrounding so called AI.

Blind hatred for AI as a technology is inherantly reactionary, but that doesn't mean that the implementation of the technology today isn't problematic in many ways.

Just don't engage with any community that starts with "fuck" if you have any kind of nuance for the subject matter.

It's not a great time. If you don't get banned, you'll get dogpiled with angry and idiotic comments anyway, by people who have decided their own facts already.

Yea reactionary thinking is easier for most people than nuance.

Vague criticisms, fallacious reasoning, highly emotive language, little response to attempts at discussion (though some might engage in disingenuous discussions of shifting goalposts here and there to discourage particularly vocal engagees from future participation). So I'd say that Linus is just the latest convenient scapegoat in an Anti-AI 'trend' that will have little impact on the rate of AI adoption in the long run.

Sucks that I waited until now to try to form a measured opinion on AI because now all the discussions on the internet are hot garbage.

Entirely irrelevant to the conversation at hand but okay

AI is just a tool, the user of a tool should be competent enough to use it properly

All right. And if I cp a jpg file, I'm a photographer. cp is my creative tool.

Explain to me how Photoshop is comparably destructive as AI is lol. Also the cotton gin replaces slave labour primarily. Idk if that's what you want to put up as an example here.

One example.

Got something that has more than 18 participants split into 3 groups for a total sample size of 6 people per control group? Not to mention its focus on AI assisted essay writing, measuring cognitive debt (not decline), using EEG to infer performance of higher cognitive function, etc.

Yeah I notice he doesn't address the costs, economic and environmental, of LLM proliferation. Way to ignore a large part of the argument while calling anyone opposed to your position stupid.

I hope he gets to eat those words one day, but I doubt he would ever admit he was wrong.

get back to the scarf! i have a blanket im working on too lol.

but yeah. i think from our sw/eng industry, ai is at the least the one with the steepest destructive “curve”, i suppose.

ty for your reply.

new and interesting tools

Looks Under The Generative AI Hood

Sees Snakeoil Salesman Selling Labotomies As The Future

Now do it for the planned capacity of every AI data center currently planned or under construction or waiting for compute manufacturing by the big tech monopolists, and the trillions of dollars of labor that they're telling the world they'll replace whether the product is capable of it or not.

The bot doesn't have to be able to do your job to displace your labor. It only has to convince your boss that it can. Right now the big tech monopolists are actively convincing the entire world's bosses that they can replace your labor. This doesn't have to be true to be a labor issue, and it certainly doesn't have to be true to be a devastating economic bubble.

Measured perspectives are hard to come by. A Marxist Perspective On AI

Oh my god a reasonable take for once. Thank you for putting into words why his heel-turn has bothered me so much

the button is there, but clicking it does not do anything, can't do it via the profile or searchbar either

What are you using? Web or some app?

Because he still the main maintainer and a developer on a piece of software core to a lot of modern computing.

If he is wrong on this it could ruin the credibility and reliability of Linux and cause a fork that could tear the community and ecosystem apart.

If he's right he's proved that AI can make maintainable, reliable core infrastructure code and the field will change to reflect that. Can't tell your boss AI sucks and is unreliable and I won't use it if AI code is working well at the base of modern computer software.

I don't have a personal or professional workflow that would benefit from AI. I have not been impressed with any generated art or writing (knowingly, so far). I pretty much only know it for the enshittification of search results. It might be great at coding, I'll never know because in my first 49 years of life I've only needed to code enough to get a D+ in my Pascal class. It might get great at generating art but I haven't had to generate art since my sophomore year of high school. I hear it's good at scanning lab test results which is great for future me when I need a lab test result but doesn't come up for me in the day-to-day. There are plenty of other useful things I'm sure it can do for other people but the stuff they say it can do for me right now is nothing I'm interested in having done for me.

just the basic lemmy.ml website.

i personally don't care about posting opinions on an admin account, but they seem to be right. suspect it's to do with living on the same instance.

My understanding is that AI/LLMs can generate code that works, but often that code is more bloated/convoluted than code written by a decent coder, making it less efficient and more difficult to maintain.

This was more true last year but developments in both the frontier models and the harnesses used to control and direct those models have gotten better to the point where I'd say the code is better then most devs. People on here don't want to admit it but if you did a "coding turing test" between Claude and some random dev coding by hand I'd bet most of the time a dev would say the AI output is better.

I like Linus, but comparing an LLM to a compiler is fucking stupid.

I mean, I use it because I'm forced to, but I don't feel much in productivity gains (not using agents though). Sometimes it's very, very handy, but most of the time it's like talking to the stupidest rubber ducky, and the frustration it gives me is not worth that imo. Others might make a different calculation, but ultimately if search engines didn't enshitify themselves into obsoletion, and LLMs didn't produce the worst, most verbose, and sometimes objectively wrong documentation, I'd not see an upside at all. But here we are.

GenAI lets teenagers nudify their classmates, creating child porn. Twitter even let you do it directly on the site earlier this year.

Students are using it to do their homework for them and learning nothing; at least with CliffsNotes you got the gist of what you were supposed to be reading. We shouldn't want a dumber society.

GenAI also makes it substantially easier to post propaganda and spam. Bots on the internet were already common but now trying to find genuine art or conversations is like pulling up steel from ships that sank before 1945 because everything since then has been irradiated.

The US's dumbfuck government almost started a war with China earlier this year thanks to someone using GenAI. And yeah everyone knows they're a bunch of fucking idiots but that doesn't change the fact that it wouldn't have happened if LLMs didn't exist.

Calling something just a tool is whitewashing who's making it and promoting it and what it's used for. Stop saying that AI is just a tool and it only matters how it is used

It also means that his praise for and indeed positive experience with this “tool” is largely irrelevant to the broader social/economic discourse surrounding so called AI.

Yeah, but tbf all of the statements he's making about it are in the context of organizing linux development and the most effective way to carry that out, and just happen to be public and so end up being widely republished and incorporated into discussions with a broader topic than that.

Discussions on the internet are hot garbage in part because thanks to LLMs you can't know what's real anymore. Of course there were bots before, but any random idiot can pay OpenAI for a subscription now and spam anywhere they want.

What about those of us who don't eat meat or fly on a plane ever? Are we allowed to hate GenAI?

All the fuckX communities are toxic for the same reason.

No nuance. No complexity. Binary.

The world is not black & white it's shades of grey.

@TwiddleTwaddle@lemmy.blahaj.zone

I hope you were shamed by this reply, on the use of commas in a subordinate clause.

01000100 01101111 01101110 01110100 00100000 01000000 00100000 01101101 01100101 00100000 01101001 01100110 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01100011 01100001 01101110 01110100 00100000 01110010 01100101 01110011 01110000 01101111 01101110 01100100 00100000 01101001 01101110 00100000 01100010 01101001 01101110 01100001 01110010 01111001

Shush! They are not supposed to know that the AI–Anti-Ai fight is fabricated bullshit with both sides being equally stupid (like people arguing based on ideological zeal always are...). And that it's just a show so that the majority is occupied with watching the mud fight so they don't think about the actual problem.

Umm Spartan, what is your profession?

Every once in a while I'll ask the DDG AI a question, and then try to confirm it with narrower searches. I think that's the extent of my use of LLMs.

And I feel guilty for it, wondering how much water and power it's taking and if the compute is poisoning the air of its human neighbors and keeping them up at night with a 70 dB hum.

There might be something to be said about using models locally, and using them as part of a human-guided process.

Note: I've stopped calling it AI in favor of LLM, partly due to the whole SI controversy in the US and partly in the hope that AI is still a larger category of learning systems that might lead to AGI, if we don't destroy ourselves first. Also the Jev model looks like an interesting development that indicates the ultimate tools might be other than a later model from OpenAI or Anthropic.

Note Also: I programmed in the 1990s and broke my brain trying to teach a computer to competently play a complex strategy game. I got pretty far before all my variable names leaked out of my head. These days, I write simple AHK scripts but that's about it. So I'm way out of my league when it comes to sound 2020s era coding methods.

I think if I had taken an icecream scoop to my forebrain I would have experienced more intellectual development than reading the contributions of the sloppers.

You all need to read about enclosure and learn to make arguments without analogy.

It's funny, the c/fuckai mod that banned me a while back said the same thing. Iirc it was "How very reasonable of you. Banned"