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"China is AuThORItAriAN!" - Liberals
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Cowbee [he/they] lemmy.ml Cowbee@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2023-12-31
#202 · Quote Reply

Well then use that amendment that children keep dying for or stop complaining. So pathetic
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Kurroth aussie.zone Kurroth@aussie.zone
Joined: 2023-07-11
#203 · (edited) Quote Reply

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What good is complaining amongst a communist org, if your democracy and elections a rlcapitalist?

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Cowbee [he/they] lemmy.ml Cowbee@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2023-12-31
#204 · (edited) Quote Reply

What good is complaining amongst a communist org, if your democracy and elections a rlcapitalist?
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ShinkanTrain lemmy.ml ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2024-06-13
#205 · Quote Reply

I beg to differ.

Hey commies, you say I'm misinformed, but have you considered "Nuh uh".

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BiteSizedZeitGeist lemmy.world BiteSizedZeitGeist@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-10-07
#206 · Quote Reply

I donno anything about China, but whoever made this meme certainly doesn't know anything about the USA. The idea that "liberals" or anyone else (??) are high-fiving themselves over a credit score. lol
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BiteSizedZeitGeist lemmy.world BiteSizedZeitGeist@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-10-07
#207 · Quote Reply

Two kinds of people in the comments: those who think credit scores are bad, and those who think social credit systems are good

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BlackLaZoR lemmy.world BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world
Joined: 2026-02-26
#208 · Quote Reply

Noone actually forces you to live in debt. It should be last resort, but people in US finance everything

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ShinkanTrain lemmy.ml ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2024-06-13
#209 · Quote Reply

Saying you should shut up if you haven't researched a topic isn't an adhominem.

"No investigation, no right to speak"

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Quadhammer lemmy.world Quadhammer@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-11-09
#210 · Quote Reply

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Quadhammer lemmy.world Quadhammer@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-11-09
#211 · Quote Reply

Authoritarian is a meaningless pejorative. The social credit score isn't real.
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Cowbee [he/they] lemmy.ml Cowbee@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2023-12-31
#212 · Quote Reply

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秦始皇帝 lemmy.ml QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2026-02-03
#213 · Quote Reply

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"liberal" denotes adherence to bourgeois democracy and capitalist property relations, (pro bourgeois democracy and private property)

The critique of certain "anarchists" is that they guise reactionary politics in radical language, which aids capitalism.

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秦始皇帝 lemmy.ml QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2026-02-03
#214 · Quote Reply

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First, let's be precise about terms: capitalism is defined by private ownership of the means of production, profit-driven accumulation, and wage labor; socialism is defined by social ownership (state, collective, or cooperative), planning mechanisms, and the subordination of remaining market forces to developmental and social goals. They are distinct modes of production, not a binary where anything short of stateless communism "counts" as capitalism.

Second, "Western capitalism" isn't a universal default, it specifically describes the Euro-Amerikan core and its integrated vassals (NATO, Five Eyes, dependent economies). That system is hegemonic, but it is not total. Russia, for instance, operates a distinct sovereign-capitalist model: not socialist, but explicitly de-linked from Western financial architecture and actively contesting unipolar dominance.

Third, China, Cuba, Laos, and Vietnam are explicitly in the early stages of the socialist transitionary period. Their frameworks (especially China's "primary stage of socialism") theorize that underdeveloped socialist states must develop productive forces, utilize regulated markets, and engage globally while maintaining proletarian state power and public ownership of commanding heights. This isn't "capitalism with red flags"; it's a materialist strategy to build the basis for higher-stage socialism. Dismissing these distinctions because communism hasn't been "achieved" yet misunderstands dialectics: transition is a process, not an event. You don't call a bridge under construction meaningless because it has yet to reach the other side.

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Quadhammer lemmy.world Quadhammer@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-11-09
#215 · Quote Reply

"fake" Uyghur genocide, wow.
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秦始皇帝 lemmy.ml QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2026-02-03
#216 · Quote Reply

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Go back to 4chan obergruppenfuhrer. Or provide some evidence/analysis but I doubt you have that capability.

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ShinkanTrain lemmy.ml ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2024-06-13
#217 · (edited) Quote Reply

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Profoundly wrong statement.

First because that's not how Marxist-Leninists use the word 'liberal', that's a definition you just made up while ignoring decades of literature. Second, because it implies that is not what the word actually means to literally everyone, not just Leninists or even just socialists, everywhere on the planet with the exception of the US liberal duopoly.

Third, because it mistakenly assumes people are calling you a liberal because of your instance, and not because of your shit takes.

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秦始皇帝 lemmy.ml QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2026-02-03
#218 · Quote Reply

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So not accepting exaggerated narratives means China is a utopia? Why do people rarely offer ordinary, policy-level criticism? There is plenty of it, but discussion often defaults to cartoonish claims instead of routine institutional analysis.

Where is the discussion of the hukou household registration system and its trade-offs?

Where is the discussion of local government reliance on land-use financing?

Where is the discussion of provincial policy experimentation and uneven implementation?

Where is the discussion of state-owned enterprises and their structural advantages and drawbacks?

Where is the discussion of demographic policy after the one-child era?

Where is the discussion of regional inequality between coastal and interior provinces?

Where is the discussion of the property sector’s role in household wealth and local budgets?

Where is the discussion of debt accumulation among provincial financing vehicles?

Where is the discussion of administrative campaign-style governance and its policy side effects?

Where is the discussion of bureaucratic incentives within the cadre evaluation system?

Where is the discussion of industrial policy prioritization and capital allocation?

Where is the discussion of urban planning constraints produced by internal migration controls?

Where is the discussion of education access differences tied to household registration?

Where is the discussion of long-term pension sustainability in an aging population?

I know where they are, in China because none of you know enough about China to have a proper discussion on any of these. All you know is spouting ridiculous talking points.

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ShinkanTrain lemmy.ml ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2024-06-13
#219 · Quote Reply

Noone actually forces you to live in debt. It should be last resort, but people in US finance everything

Noone actually forces you to live in debt

Oh damn I didn't know they made housing and healthcare free, that's dope as fuck

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秦始皇帝 lemmy.ml QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2026-02-03
#220 · Quote Reply

Noone actually forces you to live in debt Oh damn I didn't know they made housing and healthcare free, that's dope as fuck

No you don't understand you can just become homeless and then let yourself die of preventable causes.

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ShinkanTrain lemmy.ml ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2024-06-13
#221 · Quote Reply

No you don't understand you can just become homeless and then let yourself die of preventable causes.

No you don't understand you can just become homeless

Isn't that illegal in the US

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秦始皇帝 lemmy.ml QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2026-02-03
#222 · Quote Reply

No you don't understand you can just become homeless Isn't that illegal in the US

I wouldn't be surprised but I am neither amerikkkan nor have I looked into that.

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BlackLaZoR lemmy.world BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world
Joined: 2026-02-26
#223 · Quote Reply

Noone actually forces you to live in debt Oh damn I didn't know they made housing and healthcare free, that's dope as fuck

Come on like half of car sales in US are financed.

You know that Healthcare and housing is the last resort I'm talking about - where you have no other option.

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ReluctantMuskrat lemmy.world ReluctantMuskrat@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-07-05
#224 · Quote Reply

No you don't understand you can just become homeless Isn't that illegal in the US

Only if you insist on sleeping.

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Cowbee [he/they] lemmy.ml Cowbee@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2023-12-31
#225 · Quote Reply

Come on like half of car sales in US are financed. You know that Healthcare and housing is the last resort I'm talking about - where you have no other option.
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BiteSizedZeitGeist lemmy.world BiteSizedZeitGeist@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-10-07
#226 · Quote Reply

Profoundly wrong statement. First because that's not how Marxist-Leninists use the word 'liberal', that's a definition you just made up while ignoring decades of literature. Second, because it implies that is not what the word actually means to literally everyone, not just Leninists or even just socialists, everywhere on the planet with the exception of the US liberal duopoly. Third, because it...

The ML usage of the term liberal comes from Classical Liberalism, right? Please correct me.

Also I hate how y'all think I'm personally evil because I haven't Read Theory. Y'all are my first exposure to MLs and I don't have any control over what my society has taught me. (I'm not defending what my society has taught me, I've been deconstructing for a long time and not stopping.)

Is naivete a sin?

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BiteSizedZeitGeist lemmy.world BiteSizedZeitGeist@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-10-07
#227 · Quote Reply

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I'll stand corrected on the anarchist comment. But if one lives in a capitalist country, one inevitably supports capitalism, right? Even if it's against their will.

This sounds more and more like Original Sin.

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rajano lemmy.world rajano@lemmy.world
Joined: 2026-02-14
#228 · Quote Reply

The social credit system that you know of doesn't exist.

Interesting phrasing. A phrasing that assumes assumptions on my part. So ... what social credit system DOES exist.

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秦始皇帝 lemmy.ml QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2026-02-03
#229 · (edited) Quote Reply

The ML usage of the term liberal comes from Classical Liberalism, right? Please correct me. Also I hate how y'all think I'm personally evil because I haven't Read Theory. Y'all are my first exposure to MLs and I don't have any control over what my society has taught me. (I'm not defending what my society has taught me, I've been deconstructing for a long time and not stopping.) Is naivete a sin?

Is naivete a sin?

No investigation no right to speak is a core part of MarxistLeninist thought as it has evolved. Naivete is not "a sin" but if you haven't researched a topic you shouldn't speak on it.

As Chairman Mao put it:

Unless you have investigated a problem, you will be deprived of the right to speak on it. Isn't that too harsh? Not in the least. When you have not probed into a problem, into the present facts and its past history, and know nothing of its essentials, whatever you say about it will undoubtedly be nonsense. Talking nonsense solves no problems, as everyone knows, so why is it unjust to deprive you of the right to speak? Quite a few comrades always keep their eyes shut and talk nonsense, and for a Communist that is disgraceful. How can a Communist keep his eyes shut and talk nonsense?

It won't do!

It won't do!

You must investigate!

You must not talk nonsense!

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BlackLaZoR lemmy.world BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world
Joined: 2026-02-26
#230 · Quote Reply

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Bullshit. Used car market exists since the invention of a car. If you need a vehicle that will drive your ass from point A to the point B you absolutely have no need to buy a brand new one.

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秦始皇帝 lemmy.ml QinShiHuangsShlong@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2026-02-03
#231 · Quote Reply

Interesting phrasing. A phrasing that assumes assumptions on my part. So ... what social credit system DOES exist.

My previous comment on it. Mostly there is no "score" it's a binary list of businesses and business people (some individuals may end up on the list if they lose a defemation suit for example) who owe debts/damages and refuse to pay. It's not automatic, it's not affected by your day to day life and you are put on the list only after a court hearing

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technocrit lemmy.dbzer0.com technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com
Joined: 2024-02-19
#232 · (edited) Quote Reply

That's because people confuse nationalism with patriotism. I love my country, which is why I want it to be better. Others love their country because it gives them permission to be worse. To be clear, it's still not good. I support any kid that wants to sit out for the pledge or sit or kneel for the national anthem. It should always be non-obligatory. In fact, I don't love the word "allegiance" ...

I love my country,

Not even sure how to respond to this kind of vague emotional ideology. When people say this kinda stuff to me in person, I back away slowly.

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BrainInABox lemmy.ml BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2024-12-11
#233 · Quote Reply

Ad hominem, ad hominem, and mmm, ad hominem. Yeah, nothing to see here.

Least insufferable redditer

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beejboytyson lemmy.world beejboytyson@lemmy.world
Joined: 2024-06-22
#234 · Quote Reply

It is possible to oppose all three things. It is possible to simultaneously oppose the Social Credit System in China, the Credit Score system in the United States, and the elites connected to Jeffrey Epstein.

Is it? You need to think more pragmatically, you are a laborer. Your only bargaining chip is your labour, decide who gets it. Personally, I don't want to be part of any helping them live their best life.

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Schmoo slrpnk.net Schmoo@slrpnk.net
Joined: 2023-07-04
#235 · Quote Reply

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Dessalines lemmy.ml dessalines@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2019-04-17
#236 · (edited) Quote Reply

I put some links in the comments below. But most of the 'information' I have is from news and documentaries about Xu Xiaodong. You can check the wikpeida article, but it's just wikpedia. I also know of someone who went to tibet as a tourist through Nepal. Their phone had to be surrendered for thorough checking, they apparently painstakingly checked all images. I don't expect anybody to believe ...

Your main source is ASPI, a far right war-hawk australian defense industry think tank.

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Dessalines lemmy.ml dessalines@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2019-04-17
#237 · Quote Reply

Noone actually forces you to live in debt. It should be last resort, but people in US finance everything

but people in US finance everything

Damn I wonder why they do that. Must have nothing to do poverty. /s

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Ron zegheteens.nl Ron@zegheteens.nl
Joined: 2025-08-29
#238 · Quote Reply

The Chinese credit system is western propaganda there is nothing like it as described in western media.

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JojoWakaki lemmy.world jojowakaki@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-10-19
#239 · Quote Reply

Your main source is ASPI, a far right war-hawk australian defense industry think tank.

And your source is mintpressnews.

Also it's not my main source. You just cherry picked one. Ok sure mybad on that, lets diregard that one.
What about CIS, DHS, and NCSC?

Also BBC. Let's also add wikipedia [1] [2] because why not.

And do we want to talk about censorship? Sounds like something an authoritarian regime does.

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Mulligrubs lemmy.world Mulligrubs@lemmy.world
Joined: 2025-08-11
#240 · Quote Reply

This comparison mixes a few real policies with a lot of exaggeration. For example, the train and flight issue people always bring up is not about having a vague “bad social credit score.” What actually exists is a court enforcement measure. If someone refuses to comply with an effective court judgment (most commonly paying a debt or damages) the court can place them on the judgment-defaulter li...

Thanks for your post, your explanations are appreciated!

Don't answer if annoying, sorry for rudeness, but do Chinese high-level officials openly live lavishly and flaunt their wealth like US leadership?

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Mulligrubs lemmy.world Mulligrubs@lemmy.world
Joined: 2025-08-11
#241 · (edited) Quote Reply

As good as preferential/ranked voting is. Compulsory voting would have a much larger positive impact on US' democracy Ideally both

How will compulsive voting improve anything? Now you're dragging even more uninformed dopes to vote, a lot of them will vote for spite. Far more than you realize, I think

Trump was 100% the vote-for-spite-burn-it-down candidate. That's how they get you, the old switcheroo

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Mulligrubs lemmy.world Mulligrubs@lemmy.world
Joined: 2025-08-11
#242 · (edited) Quote Reply

Well then use that amendment that children keep dying for or stop complaining. So pathetic

Please stop financing and enabling the USA, also, and stop using the US dollar for international trade. So lame that you haven't done that

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eldavi lemmy.ml eldavi@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2023-07-18
#243 · Quote Reply

How will compulsive voting improve anything? Now you're dragging even more uninformed dopes to vote, a lot of them will vote for spite. Far more than you realize, I think Trump was 100% the vote-for-spite-burn-it-down candidate. That's how they get you, the old switcheroo

Now you’re dragging even more uninformed dopes to vote, a lot of them will vote for spite.

uninformed defines almost all american voters and the last election showed that 30 million people who voted in 2020, chose not to vote in 2024 instead of spite voting.

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Omega lemmy.world Omegamanthethird@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-06-16
#244 · Quote Reply

I love my country, Not even sure how to respond to this kind of vague emotional ideology. When people say this kinda stuff to me in person, I back away slowly.

I want America to prosper and I want to protect American values from right-wing radicals that are in charge. I'm very passionate about it. In fact, I live in a red state and I want it to just be better and no longer radicalized by lies and hate.

I very passionately want America to heal from this illness of hate and apathy.

If that makes me a bad person, then fuck me I guess.

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Banana sh.itjust.works Banana@sh.itjust.works
Joined: 2023-06-14
#245 · Quote Reply

That's because people confuse nationalism with patriotism. I love my country, which is why I want it to be better. Others love their country because it gives them permission to be worse. To be clear, it's still not good. I support any kid that wants to sit out for the pledge or sit or kneel for the national anthem. It should always be non-obligatory. In fact, I don't love the word "allegiance" ...

I just cannot understand why somebody living in a colonial country can truly say they love their country unless they're brainwashed or completely ignorant to its history.

I'm from Canada and we are not better, there's just not as much of an issue of rampant nationalism disguised as "patriotism". Our countries were built on the graves of the native inhabitants, by the hands of slaves. At no point in the history did they stop abusing natives and the descendants of slaves, they just found new ways to hide it and new names to call it (how does a prison make a profit, anyway?).

I love and am proud of my community, but that is the extent to which my pride reaches. I cannot feel proud of a country that was built on the blood of the innocent.

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Cowbee [he/they] lemmy.ml Cowbee@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2023-12-31
#246 · Quote Reply

I want America to prosper and I want to protect American values from right-wing radicals that are in charge. I'm very passionate about it. In fact, I live in a red state and I want it to just be better and no longer radicalized by lies and hate. I very passionately want America to heal from this illness of hate and apathy. If that makes me a bad person, then fuck me I guess.
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mrgoosmoos lemmy.ca mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca
Joined: 2025-03-24
#247 · Quote Reply

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nowadays it's more accurately the same statement for both

people are praising the supreme leader in america

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iuminou lemmy.dbzer0.com thethunderwolf@lemmy.dbzer0.com
Joined: 2025-09-12
#248 · (edited) Quote Reply

China IS authoritarian.

I'm not a liberal, I'm a libertarian socialist/communist.

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Cowbee [he/they] lemmy.ml Cowbee@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2023-12-31
#249 · (edited) Quote Reply

China IS authoritarian. I'm not a liberal, I'm a libertarian socialist/communist.
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Mulligrubs lemmy.world Mulligrubs@lemmy.world
Joined: 2025-08-11
#250 · (edited) Quote Reply

Sure, let's say it doesn't since I admittedly haven't looked into this in painful detail. However, this meme seems to suggest that if it did exist, then it would be perfectly fine on the virtue that credit scores exist in America. Aka, whataboutism. Since Germany made concentration camps under the third reich that it isn't that bad when America does it. At least by this logic. Guess it's imposs...

That's not what "whataboutism" is. This isn't a structured debate where we are limited to one topic, it's a conversation... and we're allowed to use examples and compare like to like, you do it, I do it, every human on Earth does it every day.

Sure, you're allowed to call this and everything else 'whataboutism', I don't think you should be given a "whataboutism score" wherein those with the highest scores are avoided by reasonable people.

I await your charge of gaslighting eagerly

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Dippy beehaw.org Dippy@beehaw.org
Joined: 2024-02-21
#251 · Quote Reply

In reply to an earlier post

The only ones celebrating credit scores as a concept are lenders, the true capitalists

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