Edit: I intentionally put "bad people" in the title in order to provoke. 😊

If you don't know what I'm talking about:

Death Note

Black Mirror - Hated in the Nation

I'm not sure how to limit the scope of this discussion, since it touches upon so many areas of morale:

• the value of life
• the right to kill
• vengeance/revenge
• crime
• good and evil

So I encourage you to be articulate and to follow some structure: "what(thesis) - why(evidence) - what (thesis)". Other easy to follow variations, such as "why(background + evidence) - what(thesis)" or "what - why - what - by the way(discussion)" or just a simple "what" are of course good too. I'm not trying exclude comments, and I won't, just encouraging an easy to read discussion. As for me:

I would not kill using a Death Note, unless for some utterly personal vendetta. I would also not kill those that did, if we were talking about some sort of society wide phenomenon. I believe that taking action against human life on the macro scale, such as a nation state against another or such as one confined justice system against one of its subjects (state versus an individual, for instance) or in the fictive case of the above mentioned media, is wrong. This is because I don't believe it right to through politics or legislation qualify or quantify the value of a human life, such as is done in jurisdictions that allow capital punishment. While I'm against such "marco actions" on human life, I for some reason have less of a problem empathizing with the individual victims involved, which is to say, I don't think I'd rage against, say, a grieving mother avenging her murdered child by killing the murderer. But then again, not all individuals have the ability or the capacity to exact revenge and maybe they have to rely on their nation state for some kind of restitution? My opinion is probably logical mess, full of contradictions, but there it is. Feel free to poke holes, in a kind manner!

I would use it. But I wouldn't use it against regular people who are in jail, they are serving their time for their actions.

I would use it against those who have the resources to avoid jail time.

Oh yes, I'd probably end up with carpal tunnel syndrome from using it too much. Politicians, billionaires, CEOs, celebrities and that guys that parks his huge ass truck in a way that the hood is intruding on the sidewalk.

Also I'd try to do it in funny ways while they are on live-TV when possible, like the priest that got hit by the falling cross.

I usually go with:

Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.

-- Gandalf when asked about killing Gollum

You are careful to quantify "human life". Do you believe that human life is more valuable than other life? If so, why?

Of course it is. We are humans and we're doing the valuing. You'd be stupid to not value yourself above other life.

I know of some powerful people I would want to write the name of. I’m not sure if it will end the wars and suffering they’ve caused, but I believe the world would be a better place without them.

Like everyone else, I have lines that cannot be crossed.

I personally believe that if you intentionally kill another human or intentionally harm/violate a defenseless child, you have waived your human rights as a result.

I’m also going to echo what others are saying, that those who have been caught by a justice system and sentenced should be left alone and I would focus on murderers and child abusers who are still at large.

Those who have, through their direct involvement and obscene power, caused and continue to cause harm and/or death to countless others I would use it on. I.e., those who have already chosen to abandon their humanity without remorse. No “small fries” or, like others have said, those who are already handled by society’s systems.

I would, however, methodize for death by natural causes if possible rather than direct violence. Much harder to make a martyr of someone who died like Stalin ;)

I genuinely don't know. My beliefs are pretty contradictory on this. Murder is wrong, unless it's self defence in which case it's still bad but better than being killed yourself. This is a pretty core tennant of my beliefs.
However I genuinely believe that there are a number of people the world would be better off without. This includes the awful right wing leaders much of the world seems to be under currently and their backers namely every billionaire on the planet.
It is potentially possible that with something like the death note I could convince myself that writing those names is self defence, or defence or the planet/ human race. I don't know if I could go through with it or if I'd be able to find someone with more flexible/ extreme views and hand it over to them.
Or if I could use it, destroy or hide it and then turn myself in.

I'd like to claim a moral high ground, but as someone who's seen Death Note (the anime, plus the Netflix adaptation), I'd probably be light Light and go after those who evaded justice.

So, a quick rundown on what a Death Note (mystical item) from Death Note (an anime) actually is. It's a divine object in the form of a notebook, and it has several rules, many of which are not invoked in the show. It can be used to kill in that a handgun can be used to kill: that is the point of it, but you can do other interesting things. The first rule is that whoever's name is written in the Death Note dies, and that you must be able to picture the person in your mind to avoid accidentally killing a person with the same name. So for example, if you're thinking of a certain paedophile president, you would have to be able to picture him in your mind as you wrote his name so the Death Note knows exactly who you mean. If you stop writing, they die of a heart attack in 60... seconds or minutes, I forget which. If you keep writing, the timer is held. Then, additional rules apply. You can choose the manner of death. You can set conditions. You can use it to force people to do things.

So here's basically what I'd set up: I'd list each person who was in the Epstein files who hadn't yet faced justice. I would compel them to hold a press conference or at least state on camera with verifiable proof that the confession is real and not coerced, and declare all the things they actually did do, to whom, and when. Then, I'd list the person or people responsible for prosecuting crimes in their jurisdiction, and compel them to put the person on trial. If the trial is tampered with in any way, a highly trained assassin comes for everyone who was bought, and the prosecutor and accused both die by self-inflicted wounds leaving behind a note saying the guilt was too much, and apologising to the women and children, as appropriate.

Then I burn the damn thing. They never say it can't be destroyed, but since it is a divine object, it probably just respawns somewhere else.

Not sure if you are being sarcastic or if you are arguing that human life is more valuable because you are human and therefore more valuable than all other life.

Not sure if you're sarcastic or if you're actually arguing that human lives are not more valuable than other animals.

to get rid of all the earths billionaires you'd only have to wrote about 3500 names

Didn't a list of ICE agents just come out? How could one resist?

I think we can expand it to shave down some of the upper multi-millionaire population as well.

People often forget that the Death Note lets you control the person near their death. Have them release a list to the public of their trusted coconspirators.

Not sarcastic. I do not think that human life is more valuable than other life. Will I prioritize my own life over others? Yes, because I am selfish that way. Given the choice, will I choose a human life over the life of an animal? I honestly don't know.

Do you believe that human life is more valuable just because you are human and therfore believe that you are more valuable, or do you have other reasonings? What I am ultimately asking is, what do you think makes human life so special and superior to other life?

I agree, full confessions livestreamed and recorded, then literal melting.

Given the choice, will I choose a human life over the life of an animal? I honestly don’t know.

Than you're an insane person.

What I am ultimately asking is, what do you think makes human life so special and superior to other life?

I mean, do you not see reality? It's quite obvious that we're quite special compared to other animals. For once, we have invented the whole civilisation thing ... I don't understand how this is even a question.

That thing would be full in like, a few hours

There are many people who contribute or cause people's deaths who should have their ability to cause harm removed from society, but who continue to roam free as a result of their disproportionate influence and the corruption of the system (which they often contribute to). Given the lack of alternate means, I would choose to remove them in the most expedient way possible while also minimizing the opportunity for recidivism. I view this as the most utilitarian approach to maximize life, liberty, or even general happiness.

I'd simply write 1 entry:

• Every billionaire. Spontaneous combustion.

I know you're right but, if I was forced to write the names of 100 humans, or one of my cats? Get me a phone book.

Self defense isn't murder.

Yeah I know what you mean. I'm talking baseline value with the benefit of the doubt here. There are definitely people that have forfeited that special status.

I would.

Yeah. But, the problem is I would have to literally look at the court room proceedings for actual guilty verdict except for Child Sexual Abuse Cases and Domestic Abuse Cases as well.

Yes, it would be enormously useful in combination with a mass movement and organized worker party to implement socialism.

Absolutely not.

I'm as capable as anyone of identifying some of the scumbags that are fucking the world over, but I'm certainly not going to fool myself into believing that I could fix everything by killing all the non-believers.

Your last sentence is a non-sequitur.

You have a small group of scumbags fucking the world over, but your conclusion is you can't kill all the non-believers.

I cannot kill all scumbags and therefore cannot guarantee that a worse one is not going to take their place. I of course realize that most people would then keep the killing going, yet that does not solve the original problem.

You know the starfish analogy? Guy walking along the beach crowded with dying starfish and hucking them back in one-by-one.. Someone tells him, "You can't save all these starfish." "No," they guy says, holding a starfish, "but I can save this one."

You're telling me, "I can't kill all the scumbags."

That aside, though, there might be a theory that doing a massive systemic change can yield a new system that is remarkably stable. For instance, in an ecosystem, if you lower a population of a dominant species, another species takes over, and that new arrangement can be stable over time.
,

Yeah, a lot of awful people in positions of power would go. I hope I wouldn't use it for petty things like "parking in the bike lane".

Removing a lot of the forces keeping the capitalist dystopia in place might let something else grow.

If I'm being completely honest, the first name I'd write would be mine.

No, not accidentally.

Unexpected question to see on Lemmy but an interesting one.

I think I would do it. Especially for people who cause disturbance for good people, serial killers etc.

No. I'm against death penalty and I extend that to also apply to the people I don't like.

I'm not even going to read the other responses but I'll make an educated guess that this is a minority view here.

I also read that comic.

The comic was pretty decent, a fun little fantasy. So is this one; Billionaires get a little hell as a treat before they go to actual* hell

I'd write down every wealthy persons name I could find

Kill all the billionaires. No exceptions.

I would absolutely use it. Billionaires, war criminals, fascists, they'd all be targets.

Once handed the death note, I'd give it a test run on a singular target, with very specific means of death. Just to make sure I'm not wasting my time.

Once it's confirmed as functional, I'd set a date roughly six months in advance. Then I'd hop on Tor and do fuck loads of research for about 5 months, setting the date of death for those billionaires, war criminals, fascists, all for the same day. I'd try to make sure it's a global thing, not just centered within "western" countries.

The world would go into a bit of a panick, as fuck loads of very powerful people would overnight be gone. The status quo of the world wouldn't change too much I wouldn't think, but the rich and powerful would have a wake up call. Some of them would be missed, some of them would have estates going to children. I wouldn't target minors, but adult children who retain that lovecraftian wealth would themselves become targets for round two.

Round two would be significantly harder to implement. The rich and powerful that slipped through the cracks in the first round would be taking big steps to hide their presence. The research to find these traitors of humanity would get significantly harder. But just as before I'd set a date about 6 months out, and do 5 months of adding names with the date.

I'd like to hope that the second round would be the straw that breaks the camel's back, and gets the currently rising tide of fascism to stop, wealth to become unwanted, etc. It will have hopefully established a pattern which makes those with the opportunity to become billionaires, war criminals, or prominent fascists to not go down that path.

Twice a year every year the process would continue, and every year it would get harder and harder to discover targets. But I think it would be the safest way for an individual to use the death note to move the world to the right track.

I would, however, methodize for death by natural causes if possible rather than direct violence.

Wihile I think that you're right to recognize that there is a risk of these people becoming martyrs, I think any real quantity of people would become quickly recognized as violence regardless of the method of death.

For instance, if you killed a dozen billionaires, and one of them was Elon Musk, all the Musk stans would probably go into conspiracy theory mode, and call it an assassination.

If you kill hundreds of billionaires, then you'll likely have nation states recognizing it as violence.

And I think that would the case regardless of the timing or means of deaths. A pattern would emerge eventually.

While I obviously disagree with your views, your writing is THE BOMB. Please make this a short story or novel - preferably in gory naturalistic style - and post it!

Certainly. Not because of grief though, revenge is not a good reason, but because many issues worldwide would be fixed with targeted assassinations and it would avoid much bloodshed (since the other option is war, civil or otherwise). Also, imagine the fear the peers of those targeted would feel, they'd think it's God's doing or something, and that might stop them from pursuing their antihuman activities.

Ps: idk about killing those who did, how could I be sure that whoever is being problematic (idk, some MAGA dude with the book just murdering innocents because they're brown or Muslim or trans) would be the one I'd kill? A world with many Death Notes makes it all very confusing. But if I could 100% know this dude is the one just murdering innocents, I'd target him as well, ofc. If I can stop a crazy serial killer with the stroke of a pen, why wouldn't I do it?!

Thank you, I appreciate it.

I've been toying with the idea ever since I watched the show. It is in effect, political fantasy masturbation.

But it is fun to jack off sometimes.

I could see myself making a short story on it. Definitely not a novel.

If you asked me this years ago I would have said no. Today though it would seem like such an opportunity to mitigate the effects of climate change and pollution and greed.

You are technically correct, the best kind. I probably should phrase that as taking a life rather than murder.

Why not add a clause that they donate their vast wealth and assets to public causes.

You're still loved and valid Miisha. Not that I'm feeling that much better myself, but it's ridiculously easier to be kind to people than to yourself. ❤️‍🔥🩷🩵🤍❤️‍🔥

PS: this sent me down a DEEP rabbit hole of research on whether it's possible to write your own name in a death note 🧐 no conclusion as of yet

I'd make Thanos look like a pacifist.