Yk what isn’t understaffed? Other, better languages.

Because it was targeted at facebook's unique use case, poorly supported, abd didn't keep up with upstream changes.

Because it’s Facebook

There might be “better” languages, but PHP is still used by ~70% of the web.

damn you better go tell them

Not sure why the php foundation didn’t look at frankenphp and said yes this will be the software for php9

NIH i guess

So what. It's like saying hunger is good because most people are hungry.

You're right. Also, spoken language is much better than written language, let's get rid of written language as well.

They, notably, did not say that PHP was good.

I’m aware of that. I’m questioning it still being used.

Neither did I.

Well somebody has to if people still use it

Comparing concepts to implementations.

A large installed base of web apps including giants like Wordpress combined with a desire not to migrate when something is working.

That number is a bit questionable:

• It only includes sites where the server-side language can be detected. That's often easy with PHP because of URLs ending in .php and well-known software like Wordpress which identifies itself in ways that are easy for a crawler to detect.
• It counts sites, not traffic. There are a lot of Wordpress sites out there which get three visitors a month.

It only includes sites where the server-side language can be detected. That's often easy with PHP because of URLs ending in .php and well-known software like Wordpress which identifies itself in ways that are easy for a crawler to detect.

So there are possibly more PHP sites out there than we realize, because the ones which disguise their URLs are ambiguous

It counts sites, not traffic. There are a lot of Wordpress sites out there which get three visitors a month.

You shouldn’t be as concerned with popularity, and much more concerned with attack surface. Your argument certainly can’t be that there are thousands of idle servers out there that should no longer be maintained because no one reads the blog hosted on them?

Ok, make them all change then. Exercise your authority.

Oh? No one has any so it’s important to maintain existing infrastructure for the best outcomes?

Wordpress is still commonly used for e-commerce. You’re probably visiting more PHP sites than you realize.

Got a proper alternative to Nextcloud that's not php? O.o

Why didn't we have a meme with these wobbly piles of blocks representing the internet structure having one tiny pillar identified as PHP yet ?

because it didn't support the same features and ended up being a fork of the language called hack.

since it wasnt a replacement and would have required lot of software to be modified or in some cases like wordpress and drupal largely rewritten it never saw wide adoption.

The world seemed eager enough to use React, though

Is the director the only staff member? Does he want a raise?

i think this comment misunderstands what frankenphp and the foundation are.

• its supports php because it is php. its built on top by loading it as a library. it doesnt implement the language so is not and does not want to be a replacement.
• the foundation doesn't choose where the language goes. They support development in various ways but language design goes through an rfc process influenced by lots of people.
• frankenphp does come up in devel mailing list discussions. i think its largely thought it being an external project is a stregth but also closely part of the project.

I am not sure why the world didn’t switch to that

Not invented here syndrome by PHP Foundation and downstream users use whatever the default is.

Maybe the 'director' should be helping then?

Oh, OK. That's much better 😁

and well-known software like Wordpress

Sorry, but you're using the fact that PHP is used by the framework that makes up about 40% of the web on its own as an argument against the claim that PHP might be on as much as 70% of all websites? That's before you start getting into other platforms like Drupal and MediaWiki, or more general-purpose frameworks like Laravel.

“We have one full-time staff member (that's me) and 14 mostly ​part-time contractors,” Executive Director Elizabeth Barron of the PHP Foundation said via ⁠email in an interview on Friday. Board members are unpaid volunteers, and funding ​comes from donations and grants.

Sounds more like she is stretched thin, and pointing out how unsustainable the current model is. Only one person dedicated to maintaining a programming language that ~70% of the internet uses is the perfect example of that xkcd “all modern infrastructure, vs one obscure person who has thanklessly been maintaining a project since 1997” meme.

The director is the full time dev... Read the article.

Very little

Thanks for clarifying, but I'm not going to go into Reuters, or any of those ad-ridden sites, like ever.

who in the hell writes in notepad?

the foundation didn't exist so that one staff member didn't exist. the foundation doesn't direct development either, they sponsor development and otherwise help to fund the project.

there is not fault either. hhvm was never a php project. they happened in parallel and there was a lot of good feelings at the time and efforts to collaborate. facebook ended up releasing hack lang and the projects drifted apart.

I have a few PHP scripts that I maintain. I use Notepad++ like a normal person, though.

one who programs in PHP, apparently, but not all PHP programmers use notepad , some use nano and others ed. /jk

What, so if Meta can throw enough money at it, they can just hijack the project?

Exactly, many thanks 👍 !

Zero.

Of course. And that fact didn't prevent what happened this week.

Yes I understand, I should have added a /s to that comment. I even have a version of that cartoon above my desk.

Hey, we can't all afford syntax highlighting

reply.wav

Its not just PHP, or even just software and digital infrastructure. Most average people would be appalled to get a look behind the curtain of how a great many things they depend on every day are operated once it is not sexy anymore and just fades into the background of the machinery that keeps the lights on and their lives going.

Yo, I got syntax highlighting up in my nano!

Syntax highlighting? In this economy?

Many industries are this way, people don't seem to realize it's only in some cases two or three people in an entire region that are keeping some key peice of equipment going. Like shit even our infrastructure is that now, we used to have people on site everywhere monitoring but now so much is just a guy in an office doing the work of 50 people.