Ah. That makes more sense.

You were asking when the time for action would be.

I'm telling you americans will never act.

Yes and its been taken very seriously by some people of a certain country.

Ah got it. Sorry. There are many angry Americans on this thread who are not happy with my opinions. Which is fine. They have that right. But they seem to think they can just make any dissenters shut up with the I dont like this button and liberal use of ad hominem attacks.

Godspeed my friend.

How would americans like to receive criticism

Americans are trained through 12 years of public education to become docile if or when they protest.

The only characters of the Civil Rights movement that are mentioned in public school are MLK and Rosa Parks.

Practically no mention of Malcom. Everything I learned of the Black Panthers through my public school career, was from watching Forest Gump. BLA? Fannie Lou Hamer? The Deacons for Defense & Justice? Never heard of 'em.

Obviously pacifism is the way to get your message across, right?

Except it fell on deaf ears until black men and women started showing up armed.

(And that, boys and girls, was the start of the gun control movement)

The Chinese aren’t protesting either. For similar reasons too.

We've just learned from the Civil Rights movement....

Black men and women tried exercising their First Amendment rights, but nobody listened until they exercised their Second Amendment rights.

It might be easier to think of mutual aid as an informal economy where the goal is to distribute resources and knowledge for the purpose of making sure people are taken care of vs profiting.

How is that not what I'm describing though? We want to break away from the formal system, that has failed us, and set up a parallel system of localized support.

I fail to see how bidding on a pot of money is more closely aligned with mutual aid than helping your neighbors distribute produce from the community garden.

Could be relevant if anyone had been talking about Georgia or it was in the meme. The only non-Western European country in there is Serbia, and it’s not Eastern European, it’s Southeastern European along with Greece et al.

they need to hustle else they get fired from their fourth job.

The problem is; wait another year and it'll be, "get fired from their fifth job." Alas; getting to that point, enough times, is what it takes. Once there is no time left, and no money left, and no food left, and the littles are too listless even to cry.

Get to that point a few times (eg: 1789, 1848, 1968), and you start choosing to stand in the tear gas early.

Gently while being told theyre all really good boys/girls.

I'm not sure the connection? (Genuine)

I hear you but its hard when so many Americans are so resistant to any criticism in the first place. Its very hard to build solidarity with people who dont want to see what they might be doing wrong.

Not upset with you at all, nor do I blame you for wanting to be with your family. Just as I don't blame the many Americans who are prioritizing the immediate needs of their families.

But you are giving yourself the grace and understanding that you have repeatedly refused to give to others.

Call me a cunt, get offended, run with "the only moral excuse is my excuse" narrative all you want. But it would do you some good to realize your reasons to move are not so different from the people you are condemning.

They've tried nothing and they're all out of ideas.

How is that not what I'm describing though? We want to break away from the formal system, that has failed us, and set up a parallel system of localized support.

Again, maybe I am not understanding the details.

Are the people who are providing the food/funding/organization realistically likely to depend on this system in the future? I think it's more important that they understand that they are building a system they will also rely on vs any "there but for the grace of god I go" type thought.

If so, then it's mutual aid. If instead the parallel system depends on people with no connection to the need, it's charity.

I fail to see how bidding on a pot of mone

I knew that wasn't the best article but I didn't want to depend on my own second hand experience to describe it because I am not Tamil.

The bid example didn't include uses like the author describes in the beginning:

He depended on Seettu to meet emergency needs: when his wife and children arrived after he sponsored them, he used the money from Seettu to fund their settlement expenses.

It's pooling money to be dispersed for the good of the community in the manner the community decides. It's not perfect of course.

I'm getting too wordy here I think but the key idea is that in order for it to be mutual aid, all involved must be building a system they themselves rely on. That removes the power of the state to cut it off by threatening the most privileged.

Are the people who are providing the food/funding/organization realistically likely to depend on this system in the future?

Yes? Who else would care enough?

I see. So when I tell someone if they aren't doing the thing in the meme the meme isn't about them I will also add "and that's why you are such a good person".

Deal, but only if we get a chapter on why shame and revenge are poison and how lessons from prison abolitionists can help them be even gooder people.

are motherfuckers in the us still not aware of trump???

Maybe I'm wrong but I thought charity was commonly used for tax benefits? Also shame. People donate to avoid looking to closely at themselves. And some people just realise they have more than they need.

I participate in charity, I don't think it's the worst thing although I understand the criticisms. If the choices are stretch myself further beyond my current capacity or auto donations to a rent bank I'm going to pick the donations.

I haven't seen the criticisms you received so I can't guess at what their issue was. Perhaps they were just starting shit.

Deleted my previous comment about 3 min after posting, wrote too quickly and missed point. Take 2.

Mate, this doesn’t show just Western Europe + Serbia. Albania is there too. I’m sorry that this memetic content does not satisfy certain implicit criteria you seem to have about generalising to the certain regions of Europe—ie those which have been protesting more than the last few weeks. And given all that, I have no idea what your point is. Protests that have had significant impact on people’s daily lives through protesting are not just during the Arabic spring but there are modern examples in Europe. If you agree with that, then what’s the discussion about?

You sir, are a fucking piece of shit. Cheers!

I do, it's a legislative body comprised of elected representatives from geographic areas, often based on proportional representation. But that shouldn't prevent the French people from doing something about right-wing populism, and Le Pen in particular, any more than the U.S. system prevents Americans from doing something about it.

Lol

But a genuine comment because people think I'm a big meanie:

It's helpful to know that folks aren't alone and also helpful for orgs who are already doing things to improve the material conditions of their community to get some publicity and maybe some new helping hands.

Maybe then america will realize they have power, and the revolution might not be exactly the same as their last one

Albania and Serbia are in the same region (and I didn’t decide that, the ‘Permanent Committee on Geographical Names - Ständiger Ausschuss für geographische Namen (StAGN)’ did), should have added that in my original comment but got distracted by my bus stop coming up.

My point is that sneering at Americans for not doing sufficient protest while tailcoat riding the Arab Spring protests as a European is hypocritical.

People are getting killed and maimed in the US for protesting, acting like everyone is sitting home twiddling their thumbs is just chugging the media narrative you’re fed.

Sad.

Not sure what you’re getting at here. Trump won in 2024. Just like Joe Biden won in 2020. Except when Trump won there wasn’t a mob smearing shit on the Capitol walls because they didn’t like the outcome.

I don’t buy any conspiracy theory that Elon changed votes in 2024 or whatever bullshit people are using to cope with the fact that Americans are fucking stupid and Biden was a colossal fuckup.

Yes, that is my point, too. Notice how the excuses start to fly when I apply the same (warranted) criticisms to other countries that so many non-Americans lob at the U.S. It doesn't feel good, and doesn't help anything, does it? Everybody should knock it off, and work together instead of basking in self-righteousness.

Ditto.

I don’t think the problem is with those who protest (more than on certain big days)—there are many and they have my respect. it’s the excuses of those who don’t. So if you think I have a lack of respect for the Americans who protest at the moment, that is not my intention.
They are just the minority.

Then it’s the problem of some who do something (or anything—attend on protest) and think it’s enough. Like Europeans who protest on May 1st and think that’s enough. But there are differences between those groups too. But everywhere can do better. But some are further away than others

None of this gets you a tax benefit, and the state doesn't count food bank volunteer hours towards your food stamps hours or community service or anything. Another reason I say it's mutual aid and not a charity.

We've also set up a tool library, and somebody is providing barn space for community repair projects. My partner is a carpenter by trade, and while he's unemployed, he's been showing people how to safely use the tools. I'm disabled, and unemployed, so I'm designing event fliers and providing web hosting for the group. Most of the group is low-income at best, but we absolutely chipped into a pot when a member had to undergo major surgery.

The criticism of charity that I've heard, is that by filling in the gaps left by capitalism, you're postponing the revolution. People need to understand that capitalism is bad, and for that to happen, capitalism needs to fail utterly. Harm reduction and charity keeps capitalism from failing utterly, and is therefore a bad thing.

But honestly, I think 99% of the talk on the Fediverse about all this really is just people wanting to start shit. It's easy to just say that Americans are incapable of doing anything, and then be derisive when somebody attempts to do something. I live in a rural town of less than 3k, thousands of miles from DC, so nothing I do will ever be big enough or good enough to change federal policy, and is therefore considered a waste of time by your average commenter here.

ITT: Very angry Americans.

You can give me a dictionary definition but I don't think you understand it. Parliaments don't prevent people from "doing something", they make it easier to prevent an individual like Le Pen from being in power even before looking outside of formal processes. Which is why she isn't in charge of the country's nukes, unlike trump.

She has run for the presidency and lost three times. What more do you want the french to do?

I can break down her current positions if that helps

• Leader of the National Rally National Assembly Group - this is an alliance of political parties that vote in a block, not political office (although she holds an elected position in the national assembly as well).

• President of the National Rally - again, this is not an political office. She's the leader of her party.

• Chair of the Europe of Nations and Freedom group - this time it's a block in the European Parliament not the french National Assembly. She does not hold a seat in the European Parliament.

• Member of the National Assembly for Pas-de-Calais okay, so here she is elected. She holds one seat, so has one vote in a sea of 577 other votes.

Yes, she leads her party, which currently hold 118 seats and the block she represents hold 126 votes. Not enough to do anything on their own.

I imagine you are not thinking, "but none of that is telling me what they are going to stop her". I think a lot of my confusion comes from the fact this question is being asked in a thread with a meme showing people in France taking to the streets.

Yes, some of it is about her, specifically.

https://www.afp.com/en/far-right-leader-le-pen-kicks-presidency-tilt-wake-france-protests

Le Pen, who will address 10,000 members of her National Rally (RN) party in the city of Orleans, has accused Macron's centrist government of being soft on violent protesters and lacking authority.

Police were on Sunday filtering traffic going into Orleans, after thousands of counter-protesters opposed to Le Pen and her anti-immigration, nationalist RN marched in the city on Saturday chanting anti-fascist slogans.

Police put their numbers at 13,000, while organisers estimated the turnout at twice that.

One protester on Saturday, 35-year-old yoga teacher Antonine Rochet, said: "One of the risks of the National Rally coming to power, beyond the implementation of its policies, is the atmosphere it could create."

"If the far right comes to power, we fear things will become much worse," she added.

Another anti-fascist rally was called for Sunday on the southern outskirts of Orleans.

I hope you can how understand why the comparison is absurd, and maybe have a little inspiration of an idea you all can try when you figure out that passing the crown between two teams isn't actually preventing bad things from happening.

(I have nothing nice to say about france and I'm going to have to take a shower after writing this reply)

No they can’t complain, there’ll just be another wall of excuses and when they aren’t accepted, personal attacks, unless you’re Canadian then you’ll get your arse kissed because the threat is real from them.

Notice how the excuses start to fly when I apply the same (warranted) criticisms to other countries that so many non-Americans lob at the U.S.

You mean when you engage in whataboutism?

Yes, that is my point, too.

Really shitty way to make it by feeding right back into it. Notice I didn’t have to do that to make the point?

It doesn't feel good,

I’m not from France. I just saw an American acting like an ass and decided, as an American as well, to call it out.

and doesn't help anything, does it?

Nope, yet you fucking did it anyway?

Everybody should knock it off, and work together instead of basking in self-righteousness.

How did you not drown in the irony typing this out?

it's also helpful to fight against tyranny though

Buddy, you started this whole conversation with ad hominem against an entire nation, as if it were valid to judge them all collectively.

Easy there stretch armstrong.

I say this with kindness: If a criticism doesn't apply to you then it doesn't apply to you. Anyone can get online and say whatever they want. There is a lot of nonsense out there. A lot of people playing fantasy.

I know it's hard to let people talk shit directly about you and your initiatives but you don't owe them an explanation and there is no benefit to convincing them if they are strangers on the internet.

It's easy to just say that Americans are incapable of doing anything, and then be derisive when somebody attempts to do something. I live in a rural town of less than 3k, thousands of miles from DC, so nothing I do will ever be big enough or good enough to change federal policy, and is therefore considered a waste of time by your average commenter here.

Some people might be saying exactly that, but I think people take criticism of the american system really personally and make it about themselves.

When people criticize my government (and there is a lot to criticise) I don't get defensive because I have no interest in defending the state and I know I am doing what I can to improve conditions locally and disrupt the systems that enable our own brand of imperialism.

No, I meant this part:

do anything about the growing US threat

"No one is coming to save you" is such a petty, disgusting thing to say when the people you're looking down on are being turned into the cogs of a machine that has the entire world in its sights. The world needs to save itself from us.

I mean this in the least antagonist way possible: I don't think anything I said excludes fighting tyranny.

It didn't take long for you turn into an ass, though, did it?

Look at it this way, though: You have a system which limits the progress of far-right populists. Great! We don't. But if we try to explain how the system screws us over, it's just "excuses." And our protests that get people out in the streets are "ineffective."

We're doing the same as you, which is everything legally and procedurally possible, and protesting, too. A little empathy, and understanding the limits of our system would be nice.

We are acting. It's just diffuse and not loud. And, granted, it may not be enough.

For now the focus is on the election, to get the opposition party in power, to reform the opposition party away from neoliberalism, to plan to, for the next two years hold accountable everyone in the political class and plutocratic class who engaged in corruption and self dealing.

The fight doesn't end there. We still need to rebalance the federal powers. We still need to make anew the regulatory bodies, to reforge international relations and rethink our role in the world, to create social safety nets, to reconsider our national security model... the list is long, and the problems that need addressing have been around since before Trump, just as the problems that beleaguere Europe have been festering for a while.

The question is if we can confront the disproportionate power of the patrician class and business interests though the political system. The preponderance of data centers disrupting neighborhoods, and of officials who have signed NDAs shows us the corruption is entrenched even at the local level.

The American people need to organize twelve million strong under a common manifesto. If we can do thatn there are several options open to us, violent or otherwise (though we are erring towards non-violent) that will disrupt industry and overwhelm responders, and leverage the American economy against moneyed interests. And we'll need to have a clear set of demands when we do it.

there is no benefit to convincing them if they are strangers on the internet.

There is absolutely benefit to countering the false rhetoric that nobody is doing anything. I want to inspire others to do stuff in their own communities and stop getting discouraged by all the "you only have stupid protests" nonsense that gets spread around here. Nobody believes an anti-hierarchical grassroots movement could form in a rural town, because they just assume rural = trump supporter, even the people who live here.

Let me tell you, despite being in a rural town, we only get a handful of hecklers at each big protest. We routinely get a crowd of 200 protestors, dozens of people honking in support, and only a couple of people rolling coal. We keep getting people stopping to express shock that we even exist, people keep thinking they're the only anti-trumpers living out here, but they're not.

People aren't going to do stuff if they think they're on their own. The news isn't going to spread word about supportive communities in your area. If we don't talk about what we're doing, who will?

then.. go fight tyranny then?

Interesting map:

All quiet on the eastern front...

I'd rather have less buying power to buy useless shit I don't need than to be one paycheck away from homelessness