I hate it, it has made every photo and piece of art a chore for me, I obsessively check over and over I wait for death

It should never be by default. I like the way Kagi handles it, you have to invoke it.

I switched to Kagi too. Definitely worth $10 to be able to search with some sanity again.

Here's hoping it lasts for a year or two before falling to enshitification or google.

Does Kagi have its own Index? Or is it just masking Google/Bing like DDG or Startpage?

I wish they'd add a non-subscription-based plan. I'd like to just buy a pack of searches and not have to worry about them expiring.

Probably 1 in 50 searches, I find that AI adds some value. Nothing that I couldn't work around, but it can save 2 or 3 additional searches and sometimes it gives better links than the main search does.

Usually my searches are good enough to give me the answer in the first few results.

Whenever I see AI pop up and I don't need it, I just feel like it's a huge waste. I do have it turned off on DDG.

They use a mixed index with a lot of different sources. (mentioned here)

They have direct licensing deals with Mojeek, Brave, Yandex, Wikipedia, TripAdvisor, Yelp, Apple, and Wolphram Alpha, which they claim is under "FRAND" ("Fair, Reasonable, And Non-Discriminatory") terms, with them retaining the ability to "reorder and blend results." (which is kinda their whole thing)

As for Google and Bing, they have to use third parties to get their search data, since:

Bing: Their terms didn’t work for us from the start. Microsoft’s terms prohibited reordering results or merging them with other sources - restrictions incompatible with Kagi’s approach. In February 2023, they announced price increases of up to 10x on some API tiers. Then in May 2025, they retired the Bing Search APIs entirely, effective August 2025, directing customers toward AI-focused alternatives like Azure AI Agents.

Google: Google does not offer a public search API. The only available path is an ad-syndication bundle with no changes to result presentation - the model Startpage uses. Ad syndication is a non-starter for Kagi’s ad-free subscription model.

They also run their own "Small Web Index", which prioritizes smaller sites, independently operated personal blogs, comic sites, small YT channels, things like that.

You can see some of that index on its own here. I don't often see it pop up for a lot of my searches, but I'd say maybe 1 in 20 to 1 in 50 of my searches have something that is clearly ranked from there higher in my search results, that I actually end up clicking on, that is almost always more reliable than all the other sources on the topic. It's usually most prevalent for programming/system setup related terms since there's a lot of programmers and sysadmins with their own personal blogs.

I've found they rank fediverse sites higher than Google, Bing, DuckDuckGo, and Ecosia do, though I don't know if that's just their general search ranking or if that's part of the smallweb index. Again, usually much more relevant and useful than other sites or even Reddit when they do appear.

Thanks a ton! Super insightful.

The AI generated search blurb is annoying but easy to scroll past (I usually use a cookieless browser so the dismissal option doesn’t work from session to session). What really annoys me are the AI generated websites that pop up as search results. All of them are formatted basically the same so it’s easy to spot after clicking in, but that wastes a lot of time vs previously being able to just scan the preview text.

My sister is part of the 10%. The fucked up thing is that she's not an idiot. But she truly believes that AI in search is a net benefit. I just don't get it.

It certainly adds convenience when you want quick answers. But the road to dystopia is convenient.

I agree but the ethics prevents me from doing it.

Exactly my point.

I'd like it more if it actually read the sources it gives and copied an answer from them (google used to do this before LLMs)

If you use DDG, set up a search source with the url https://noai.duckduckgo.com/ Then you can have no ai and no cookies.

If she cannot understand the gross economic and environmental impacts the use of their trashy giant AI models is, then maybe she's not as smart as you give her credit for.

It's wrong so often that it just adds useless padding I have to scroll down from, since I always have to look it up myself to get the correct info anyway.

Most of the time the ai answers are atrociously wrong. I'd rather search around then see lies, tyvm.

I don't even trust ai to tell me the release date on movies...

The type of ai I want in a search is one that runs on the indexing to detect ai slop written sites and drops them to the bottom of the search results.

I don’t want automatic AI on my search, but for some questions I do prefer AI, would be nice to have the option and not have AI slop on every single search

I just want to know if pineapple is poisonous for my dog. I don’t need paragraphs upon paragraphs of slop about what a dog is, what poison is, what a pineapple is, a hallucinated history lesson on how dogs came to be, the nutritional benefits of fruits in general, then ending off with how apples are not only safe for humans to eat, but they are delicious as well.

Send these websites to the shadow realm.

For me, I only use AI search if I can't find the answer I'm looking for in the first page of the results and I'm good with accepting a "guess" over a definitive source.

On Kagi with AI off by default it's a matter of just appending a ? to the end of my search query. I have done this 3-4 times in total. I average about 1,000 searches/month.

Believe me they're hard at work trying to fix that. I'm hoping it takes them a long time but I don't count on it.

Summary created by Smart Answers AI

My dude, read the room.

The AI is autistic

This worked! Very excited to stop having to see that, thanks!

In case anyone else runs across this I chose “add a search engine” in my browser and used the address above plus “search/?q=%s” and it works like a charm:)

I don't want Ai but want some deterministic answers. For example "12+20" should return 32, I don't need paragraphs explaining. What is the hex color code for red? FF0000. What is - 40 degrees c in f? This one is easy as it's - 40.

I don't want paragraphs explaining this stuff. I don't want it telling me how much of a math genius I am. Just give me the answer.

Things that have multiple answers like "what are good Scifi books" or "how do I write fizz buzz in c" send me to other sites.

AI integration is almost never due to public demand.

There's a road? I could have sworn we were already there.

The road is behind us but there's more of it before us too

The SEO spam was bad before AI. AI just made it worse.

This is why I use AI for search now. Even with Kagi most of the results are massive hunks of either AI or human generated slop, so I might as well just generate the slop myself and get something more concise, and when the AI does do search it can filter through the bullshit a lot faster

It’s road all the way down.

I mean, they could, but the searches would be more expensive because you'll actually use them all, so you wouldn't save any money unless you're using search like five times a month.

That also leads to you using other search engines half the time because you don't want to waste one of your Kagi searches.

I sort of get it. If AI was 100% accurate like Google search used to be, then yeah AI might be a net benefit.

But right now, they fucking tell us ”Hey this feature that gobbles up gigawatts of electricity and gallons of water might be wrong so double check it by going to the sources I've left here."

What value is that providing exactly?

Jfc...

Fixing the fact that AI is often wrong? Or fixing our ability to scroll past it?

Don’t worry, I already know the answer.

Estimating that Google search used to be 100% seems like a really big stretch.

Better, yes.

(the ai being crammed down our throats is solely due to all of the billionaires who desperately need to discredit blackmail videos)

And yet it’s on by default.

I use DDG. I know I can turn off the AI summaries, but sometimes they’re useful for gaming stuff.

so you wouldn’t save any money unless you’re using search like five times a month.

I'd still take the non-subscription route even if it was slightly more expensive. But unless they charge like $60 for 300 non-expiring searches, I'd probably still be saving money.

That also leads to you using other search engines half the time because you don’t want to waste one of your Kagi searches.

More like 90% of the time because usually I'm just being lazy about finding the url for some specific website I'm trying to go to. If I bought like 1000 searches at a time though, I doubt I'd feel so stingy with them.

It's absolutely terrible with mundane things like that. It will find someone converting quantities of flour in US vs EU recipes, and use that same conversion for milk, or molten lead. But it fail to provide the original "flour" context, and expresses the resulting conversion with absolute confidence.

And because it is such a mundane piece of information, we tend to accept it without bothering to actually verify it.

This is the sort of information that is fucking impossible to find nowadays. There was a sweet spot from like 2001-2016 where you could easily find a reliable answer to that sort of question

Ironically, the AI summary solves this exact problem in many cases. “How do I do ?” — “You do to achieve ” — “Oh, right” (closes the tab instead of reading about the history of ).

Of course, I wouldn't trust it with life-altering situations, and neither would I trust random blogs. I'd consult some kinda dog-oriented WebMD.

I think it depends on what youre asking for. Some search engines, not always AI but sometimes, I ask it really quick questions and I get answers. There may be calculators, conversation tools, etc already in the search.

I.e. what is 42 days from today. What's the release date of X game, etc.

I haven't had the time to switch to kagi yet but I have DDG and was just too lazy to turn off their AI feature. Didnt really bother me one way it the other. If the AI search doesnt answer my question I just move onto normal links. Again, for simple inquiries it just spits out the answers for me without having to click anything.

This was from months ago. I thought it was weird when I saw the title I thought are they doing a new poll? But no this articles from January. Believe me everyone on Lemmy saw this when it first happened.

Thus, most of the eco-harmful data center usage is for providing answers that are ignored.

The type of AI I want one that runs locally and blocks ads. But it blocks them pretending that they showed correctly and feeds useless bullshit to trackers.

Is anyone working on that?

Luckily there's https://noai.duckduckgo.com/

This is pre "ai" as it's now being sold. Machine written websites written to hit search results, an enshitification I noticed particularly around 2021, becoming ubiquitous.

You nailed the trajectory of these now worthless articles though, and quick answers are now removed off of the search page, AI summaries only providing them, to force us to use it unless we want to wade through machine written garbage articles.

I refuse to use ai like that, they can eat dick (more of it.)