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Under British and UK Legislation anyone using or developing end-to-end encryption is now a “hostile actor”
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hector lemmy.today hector@lemmy.today
Joined: 2025-09-03
#52 · Quote Reply

If I were to send a physical letter written in code that can only be decrypted with a cipher would I now be breaking the law? What about radio or telephone conversations in code? Can I still password protect my zip files or encrypt my NAS or PC before boot?

If so we should all start sending cryptic sounding gibberish around the world. Like from random lists send emails to foreigners with some random gibberish like product codes written in that look like encrypted messages, xg0-fs39450, or whatever, just as a form of protest.

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hector lemmy.today hector@lemmy.today
Joined: 2025-09-03
#53 · Quote Reply

Oh great more mens rea-less laws. Nothing like police showing up for reasons that you don't understand and charging you for crimes that you were not even aware that you were committing. I forget which page this was on the in book of Democracy, but I'm pretty sure it was towards the end.

It's in the Oligarchic Repression Chapter I think.

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RadioEthiopiate lemmy.zip RadioEthiopiate@lemmy.zip
Joined: 2026-02-02
#54 · Quote Reply

Our governments are hostile. Act accordingly.

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Matt lemmy.ml DieserTypMatthias@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2024-04-03
#55 · Quote Reply

Thank god I'm not British.

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hector lemmy.today hector@lemmy.today
Joined: 2025-09-03
#56 · Quote Reply

So literally everyone in the UK using any website that uses TLS is now a hostile actor? Essentially everyone's a criminal which is a huge boon for the government. They can now get rid of anyone they want at any time, legally.

That is longstanding, the US and the UK both have been writing laws broadly enough for them to take down anyone for them, or at least charge, we all just trust it won't be abused, but as we've seen with the uk and their bad faith terror designations, that trust is misplaced, and the mask is coming off society. They aren't pretending anymore, and cynically think "democracy" such as it is, is already dead in all but name, it's only the citizenry that doesn't know it yet, and or is contesting it.

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ToTheGraveMyLove sh.itjust.works ToTheGraveMyLove@sh.itjust.works
Joined: 2026-01-29
#57 · Quote Reply

This was written in 1993? Huh, I keep seeing cyber punks around in different contexts too, like some music mixes from some cyber punk festival at least. In the old days, the British Empire steamed open everyone's mail and read it, at least coming from the colonies like India.

This is cypherpunk, not cyberpunk. Common roots, but important distinction.

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Matt lemmy.ml DieserTypMatthias@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2024-04-03
#58 · Quote Reply

Our governments are hostile. Act accordingly.
[deleted]
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ObsidianZed lemmy.world ObsidianZed@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-06-12
#59 · Quote Reply

[deleted]

"Never attribute to stupidity that which is adequately explained by malice."

or something like that...

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hector lemmy.today hector@lemmy.today
Joined: 2025-09-03
#60 · Quote Reply

the real misdirection is focusing on individuals and their blame. The real question is why does UK political system produces these people rule and how do they keep ruling.

Both parties were captured by the aristocracy/super rich, call them what you will, and they support a total surveillance of a population they obviously fear and want tools to persecute as they see fit. Starmer is a perfect example of this, he's done more damage arguably than the tories did in over a decade. Their betrayal of the country will throw the elections to the far right too, that is the only protest vote against the status quo, and they will affix themselves in power and implement even worse privacy.

A popular reform party would fix the problems but the aristocracy is too greedy and arrogant for that, thinking they can control a far right party or otherwise shut them out electorally indefinitely and continue to sell out the public to the rich, even as discontent is increasing and the plutocratic rot is visible on the surface and spread throughout the whole.

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1984 lemmy.today 1984@lemmy.today
Joined: 2023-07-28
#61 · Quote Reply

Not surprised with the mindset of current admin. Awful people.

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vane lemmy.world vane@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-11-26
#62 · Quote Reply

Don't talk without electronic devices around because it might be hostile activity.

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Gathorall lemmy.world Gathorall@lemmy.world
Joined: 2026-01-13
#63 · Quote Reply

This is such a stupid law. A lot of things require encryption, even the government itself need end-to-end encryption. Are they going to ban Signal and Briar next? These laws are made by people who have the slightest knowledge about the subjects they're making the laws on. Oppressing the people is their only concern, everything is else anti-nationalist activity. This is the first biggest step to...

The United Kingdom didn't stop being an evil empire or it's own volition. The culture of oppression was never really challenged, the pool of potential victims just severely reduced.

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Pommes_für_dein_Balg feddit.org mech@feddit.org
Joined: 2025-10-06
#64 · Quote Reply

If I were to send a physical letter written in code that can only be decrypted with a cipher would I now be breaking the law? What about radio or telephone conversations in code? Can I still password protect my zip files or encrypt my NAS or PC before boot?

According to this legislation, using https is against the law.

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Hamburger discuss.tchncs.de hamburger@discuss.tchncs.de
Joined: 2024-12-08
#65 · Quote Reply

Can you provide a source for this document?

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undu discuss.tchncs.de undu@discuss.tchncs.de
Joined: 2025-02-07
#66 · Quote Reply

TLS is not typically considered end-to-end encryption. It's transport encryption.

I understand that in a system with clients and servers having encrypted communications between the server and the clients is not enough to have end-to-end encryption.

Even then I find it strange to cobsider TLS not end-to-end, the whole gist of TLS is enabling confidential communications between 2 network nodes without any of the intermediate nodes participating in the communication being able to decrypt the data.

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WorldsDumbestMan lemmy.today WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today
Joined: 2024-12-05
#67 · Quote Reply

[removed by moderator]
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gtr programming.dev gtr@programming.dev
Joined: 2025-10-11
#68 · Quote Reply

I understand that in a system with clients and servers having encrypted communications between the server and the clients is not enough to have end-to-end encryption. Even then I find it strange to cobsider TLS not end-to-end, the whole gist of TLS is enabling confidential communications between 2 network nodes without any of the intermediate nodes participating in the communication being able ...

Yeah it's confusing. The implicit assumption in E2EE is that it is taking place on the application layer, while transport encryption happens on the, well, transport layer, or somewhere in between. I think the authors in the linked document mentioned chat communications between users which is definitely application layer.

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iglou programming.dev iglou@programming.dev
Joined: 2025-05-12
#69 · (edited) Quote Reply

I don’t get it. E2ee is about encryption in transit not encryption at rest. TLS sounds exactly like e2ee

E2E is about the sender encrypting, and only the intended receiver decrypting, with nothing in the middle able to read the data.

TLS is not designed for that, as the server you connect to is not necessarily the intended receiver, yet it can see everything.

With E2E, you can send data to a server, which is not the intended receiver, and it won't be able to read it.

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trackball_fetish lemmy.wtf trackball_fetish@lemmy.wtf
Joined: 2026-02-20
#70 · Quote Reply

[deleted]
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Vitaly feddit.uk Vitaly@feddit.uk
Joined: 2023-06-12
#71 · Quote Reply

Was this written by a native English speaker? It's hard to take seriously with so many grammatical errors

Probably ai generated let's be honest here

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ulterno programming.dev ulterno@programming.dev
Joined: 2024-11-12
#72 · Quote Reply

Paving roads makes it easier for an invading army to get around.

This is great.
If you are (or know) a UK citizen, please let them send this with the above context to their representative.

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BarticusR lemmy.world BarticusR@lemmy.world
Joined: 2025-09-22
#73 · Quote Reply

Paving roads makes it easier for an invading army to get around.

No-one's invading Lincolnshire then.

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ulterno programming.dev ulterno@programming.dev
Joined: 2024-11-12
#74 · Quote Reply

According to this legislation, using https is against the law.

Not as long as UK is the root CA, I suppose.

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Chaotic Entropy feddit.uk ChaoticEntropy@feddit.uk
Joined: 2023-07-06
#75 · Quote Reply

Fucking hell...

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mnemonicmonkeys sh.itjust.works mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works
Joined: 2023-06-17
#76 · Quote Reply

Was this written by a native English speaker? It's hard to take seriously with so many grammatical errors

It's British, so no.

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lemonwood lemmy.ml lemonwood@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2025-09-29
#77 · Quote Reply

If I were to send a physical letter written in code that can only be decrypted with a cipher would I now be breaking the law? What about radio or telephone conversations in code? Can I still password protect my zip files or encrypt my NAS or PC before boot?

Make sure you only use transparent envelopes.

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als lemmy.blahaj.zone als@lemmy.blahaj.zone
Joined: 2023-10-25
#78 · Quote Reply

So they're happy for us to read all their messages, right?

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akilou sh.itjust.works akilou@sh.itjust.works
Joined: 2023-08-03
#79 · Quote Reply

So every financial institution and everyone using WhatsApp

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liking625 lemmy.world liking625@lemmy.world
Joined: 2025-11-24
#80 · Quote Reply

thats what happens when we as society become ignorant and inept, and therefore we vote for inept and ignorant people to represent us.

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Muscle_Meteor discuss.tchncs.de Muscle_Meteor@discuss.tchncs.de
Joined: 2023-08-03
#81 · Quote Reply

thats what happens when we as society become ignorant and inept, and therefore we vote for inept and ignorant people to represent us.

When has the majority not been ignorant and inept?

Back when societies collective knowledge was like 4 things?

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Ulrich feddit.org Ulrich@feddit.org
Joined: 2024-12-22
#82 · Quote Reply

How dare you try to hide your communications from us!

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Ulrich feddit.org Ulrich@feddit.org
Joined: 2024-12-22
#83 · Quote Reply

[deleted]

All of them, AFAIK

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Droolio feddit.uk droolio@feddit.uk
Joined: 2023-06-12
#84 · (edited) Quote Reply

Can you provide a source for this document?

The source can be found here: https://terrorismlegislationreviewer.independent.gov.uk/ (direct link)

It's an independent report by Jonathan Hall KC presented to parliament. I think everyone is under the impression that those highlighted paragraphs are a statement of law, they're not. But they are the guy's (correct) interpretation of existing law - namely, Schedule 3 of the Counter-Terrorism and Border Security Act 2019.

The report itself is a good thing, coz now we know how far the UK government will try to stretch their powers and what we need to repeal when Labour (and the Tories) fucks right off.

As part of his summary:

Some of the powers and offences extend well into the zone of political activity,
journalism, protest and day-to-day human activity. However useful, they must
be tested against misuse and overreach.
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birdwing lemmy.blahaj.zone birdwing@lemmy.blahaj.zone
Joined: 2025-08-19
#85 · Quote Reply

That's often the point of this kind of legislation. The review from which this comes points out that the law is very broad and a lot is left up to the discretion of the police about how to apply it. In other words, they implement a law that just about everyone is breaking, then enforce it against environmentalists, critics of Israel, privacy advocates, socialists, anarchists and human rights ca...

Yup, it's surveillance police state shit.

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grapefruittrouble lemmy.zip grapefruittrouble@lemmy.zip
Joined: 2025-09-09
#86 · Quote Reply

If i remember correctly, a few weeks ago a government party had their signal chat leaked. Those people have since ceased using signal right?

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apftwb lemmy.world apftwb@lemmy.world
Joined: 2025-06-22
#87 · (edited) Quote Reply

HTTPS ❌🇬🇧

HTTP ✅🇬🇧

SSH ❌🇬🇧

rlogin ✅🇬🇧

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buddascrayon lemmy.world buddascrayon@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-08-28
#88 · (edited) Quote Reply

If i remember correctly, a few weeks ago a government party had their signal chat leaked. Those people have since ceased using signal right?

There's no problem with Signal's encryption. It's the same issue with any and to end encryption scheme, at either end is a person who can very easily copy and paste everything that has been said in the conversation and send it off to anybody they wish.

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Rooster326 programming.dev Rooster326@programming.dev
Joined: 2025-09-25
#89 · (edited) Quote Reply

thats what happens when we as society become ignorant and inept, and therefore we vote for inept and ignorant people to represent us.

They are not all inept.

They know exactly what they are doing.

It is a hostile act to create information the state isn't privy to. That is a very deliberate act.

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grapefruittrouble lemmy.zip grapefruittrouble@lemmy.zip
Joined: 2025-09-09
#90 · Quote Reply

There's no problem with Signal's encryption. It's the same issue with any and to end encryption scheme, at either end is a person who can very easily copy and paste everything that has been said in the conversation and send it off to anybody they wish.

No of course. I meant that if at least one party in the UK gov is using signal, with end to end encryption, they are no longer using it because they are now considered ‘hostile actors’

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LemmyBruceLeeMarvin lemmy.ml LemmyBruceLeeMarvin@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2025-11-07
#91 · Quote Reply

Gee why does the capitalist oligopoly fear communication they can't monitor it's not like they are doing anything wrong and have anything to fear from little old us

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Frigger feddit.uk Frigger@feddit.uk
Joined: 2025-08-26
#92 · Quote Reply

They are not all inept. They know exactly what they are doing. It is a hostile act to create information the state isn't privy to. That is a very deliberate act.

Fascista

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orioler25 lemmy.world orioler25@lemmy.world
Joined: 2025-10-19
#93 · Quote Reply

I mean, they wouldn't be wrong, but they don't know why they aren't wrong.

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orioler25 lemmy.world orioler25@lemmy.world
Joined: 2025-10-19
#94 · Quote Reply

Gee why does the capitalist oligopoly fear communication they can't monitor it's not like they are doing anything wrong and have anything to fear from little old us

Shit-flinging desperation at the realization that they have failed to contain dissent via internet-based coordination. Elbit and the UK's protection of property was defeated by persistent disruption thanks to the work by Palestine Action. Unlike previous forms of communication, the empire has had tremendous difficulty wrestling control away because the materiality of the internet is so dispersed, accessible, and impossible to restrict without dire economic and military consequences.

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BlameTheAntifa lemmy.world BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world
Joined: 2024-07-22
#95 · Quote Reply

“You are a hostile actor if we say you are a hostile actor.”

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Gathorall lemmy.world Gathorall@lemmy.world
Joined: 2026-01-13
#96 · Quote Reply

There's no problem with Signal's encryption. It's the same issue with any and to end encryption scheme, at either end is a person who can very easily copy and paste everything that has been said in the conversation and send it off to anybody they wish.

Well, yes, generally the recipient of a message has to get access to its content.

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Galactose sopuli.xyz biotin7@sopuli.xyz
Joined: 2025-08-05
#97 · Quote Reply

Reminder, rules for thee, but not for me

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Nyadia lemmy.blahaj.zone Nyadia@lemmy.blahaj.zone
Joined: 2025-03-27
#98 · Quote Reply

thats what happens when we as society become ignorant and inept, and therefore we vote for inept and ignorant people to represent us.

I think this is more malice than it is ineptitude tbh.

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mrtuttle lemmy.sdf.org mrtuttle@lemmy.sdf.org
Joined: 2023-06-16
#99 · Quote Reply

If so we should all start sending cryptic sounding gibberish around the world. Like from random lists send emails to foreigners with some random gibberish like product codes written in that look like encrypted messages, xg0-fs39450, or whatever, just as a form of protest.

if im alone in my car, i'll just start talking gibberish or about that time i kicked a cyber-dolphin through the moon. just in case the man is training some ai on what my phone's microphone picks up.

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Yliaster lemmy.world Yliaster@lemmy.world
Joined: 2026-02-19
#100 · Quote Reply

The British ought to actively strike against and shut this down ASAP or they will lose their country to complete fascism. Say goodbye to any aspect of democracy.

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ReallyCoolDude lemmy.ml ReallyCoolDude@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2026-01-18
#101 · (edited) Quote Reply

So google, amazon and Microsoft are hostile actors.every cloud provider is an enemy of uk government. They have gardeners (at best) or lawyers ( most probably), which did their own research.before writing these abominations.
At the same time, they want to give all medical datas in the NHS to palantir.
This is the apoteosis of incompetence.

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