preemptive banning

Zoned out here. Sounds like digging for a pretense for a retaliatory ban and that escalated. From the 2 minutes of attention I gave this it sounds like everyone involved needs to touch grass.

Let’s hope the devs and admins become more mature as their Fediverse grows

Lol

Oh no someone said something controversial on the internet, what ever will we do?

Remember when world nuked the piracy community lol.

Unless that instance is causing brigading, what's the point of banning over a former admin with such a tame username.

So long as they're also anti-Russian imperialism in Ukraine (genocide) and anti-Chinese imperialism in Taiwan (also would be genocide).

I notice many of these tankies suddenly have much to say defending these countries with atrocious records and blood on their hands as well.

Edit: Case in point. If there's one Xi/Putin supporter at a table...

** Update: I was tired when I wrote this comment, and I got some of the details mixed up. Basically I had misremembered and thought it was Luminous in part 1, but that was actually Deceptichum. Sorry for any confusion. I only just became aware of the mistake since someone pointed it out to me. I don't think it really makes the actions seem any more justifiable in either case. **

There really hasn't been any particular ongoing issue between our instances, until now, other than the usual mild frictions. Let me lay out the chain of events, as I understand it.

1. Mr Kaplan made a post about the Fediverse Hosting Foundation taking over the running of lemmy-federate. This was the comment that raised the ire of Mr Kaplan (see pic below). At the time, Mr Kaplan complained to me in a DM he had been called a Nazi. I equivocated a little because I thought it was a stretch of the imagination to take it so personally. But in good faith, and because I could tell he was very angry, I chose to ask LuminousDeceptichum to remove the "ZioNazi" phrase from his post in order to calm the situation down. LuminousDeceptichum had also posted the FHF icon with a swastika on top to YPTB, and I asked him to remove that too. Yes, he's a bit of a shit-stirrer. I thought that was the end of it.

1. I believe that sometime after LuminousDeceptichum got banned by LW, heLuminous banned Mr Kaplan for being a Zionist.

2. On Sunday, I got a message from Mr Kaplan claiming that anarchist.nexus was "calling for me to be murdered". I could hardly believe it. But when I looked into it, it appears he had noticed some provocative slogans in Luminous' user bio on Anarchist Nexus saying "Murder all Zionists", "Murder all Nazis" or something along those lines. I don't know how he noticed them, maybe because he got banned. There was absolutely nothing specifically naming Mr Kaplan afaik. It was just those slogans in his bio.

Now do I agree that wording was way over the top for an instance admin? Yes. And it is obviously not something that would lead to good relations with the other instances with whom we federate. So it was bad judgment, agreed. Luminous agreed to step down from the role as a result.

But for me, personally, I see stuff similar to that all the time on both leftist and mainstream instances, though usually in less edgy forms like "death to the idf" or "death to zionists". I never imagined anyone would take something like that as a legitimate threat of anything, unless having a moral compass is a threat. Because the Zionists currently taking potshots at the testicles of Palestinian boys for ethnic cleansing purposes are the very people Luminous was wishing death upon in reality, not Mr Kaplan.

If Mr Kaplan wants to make this all about him, that's his prerogative. But it seems like a heck of a leap to go from an [admittedly provocatively worded] slogan to a claim anarchist.nexus wanted him personally murdered. Or otherwise it's just a pretext for defederation, I'm not sure really what his motives or goals are in this.

I'll also note that he made the defederation decision himself with no consultation with his own admin team, or with our admin team. We were given no heads up and no time to act or assess the situation. There was also no consultation with the LW community. So that was, in my opinion a bit of a PTB move for the admin of Lemmy's biggest instance to take in response. It also felt wildly disproportionate to me over one user, even if it was an admin.

I get that he felt personally attacked by Luminous, but was he really, or is that just the worst possible interpretation that could be made about what is, in fact, a fairly common sentiment on lemmy? And the fact that one admin running the largest Lemmy instance can make kneejerk decisions like this that impact thousands of users with no accountability and no checks and balances is kind of worrying. Remember spez?

Whatever y'all think of dbzer0 and AN, and I know we have our haters (hi!), one thing I hope we can agree we do well is that our whole instance gets to vote whether we decide to defederate another instance. It's never up to any one person. It takes all the drama and kneejerk respones out of the process.

Anyway, I'm not going to post anything else here, just wanted to put our side across where you could all see it so we could get a chance at a fair hearing in this forum. As far as I'm concerned if LW reverts the defederation and puts some better processes in place for these types of situations then we are all good. Will they drag it out for weeks and then double down, as they nearly always do? Or will they reverse course? Stay tuned folks, I have no fucking idea, and that sucks.

The Lemmy.world team are Zionists. It is a direct death threat against them. We all know internet names are legitimate. MrKaplan has had to go into hiding due to fear for his life.

Zionism is bad tho

There was absolutely nothing specifically naming Mr Kaplan afaik. It was just those slogans in his bio.

Here is where they accused MrKaplan of zionism

I think the admins should get over it. Defederating anyone with opposing views is not helping anyone. I especially don't expect this from World. This is not a real threat and you know it.

So wait you're just defeterating an entire instance just because the arch Zionist of this instance is having a bitch fit? I'd rather just get rid of him. Can we do that instead?

Yes notoriously so.

You're replying out of the scope of my quote and reply. Which is your right, but means I have no further reply at this time.

Anyone who's ever encountered them accuses them of being a Zionist cuz they fucking are.

The irony of posting this while defending a literal fascist.

If it's based on the reason given for when MrKaplan got banned by this user two days ago, I think it's pretty strong evidence this is an interpersonal spat and retaliatory.

Classic.

Wishing somebody to be murdered is not an "opposing view". These things can have real world consequences and you know it.

That’s rich coming from you looking at your moderation actions.

A lemmy.world moderator recently accused @Mechoselachia@multiverse.soulism.net of being My alt. The problem with that accusation is, I have proof that we're different people. Here it is.

I’m not a Nazi apologist I just think hitler shouldn’t have been killed.

Actually insane.

Yeah, I had a very negative experience with Flatworm recently. They made a grudge post calling for a vote to defederate My instance, which, fair enough, democracy is cool. But then they accused Me of being an alt of a bunch of other people with no evidence, and "defended" Me with an insanity defence I didn't consent to, in a way that increased people's stigma. I think the "defence" was just an excuse to tell everyone about My disabilities.

I see. Thank you for clarifying; the timing was unclear in the original post.

The Nazis got some of their best inspiration from America's treatment of black people. I don't exactly think America is a shining beacon of responsibility, especially in the 1940s. I don't think America should have a death penalty, because I don't trust the American government to wield that power responsibly. If political enemies like Hitler can be executed, then political enemies like Edward Snowden are at risk too.

As an anarchist, I want to limit the power of the state because I don't trust anyone with that much power. And I especially don't trust the likes of Harry Truman and Richard Nixon.

I don't mind either statement on it's own. But it does become problematic once people go around baselessly accusing others of being Nazis/Zionists, which is something that is rampant on lemmy, especially dbzer0 and its offshoots.

Death to zionists is like saying death to nazis. Oh no real consequences

... I'm pretty sure both Democrats and Republicans are fascists. The Democrats want to exploit and enslave weaker nations for the benefit of the "lower" class and the Republicans want the spoils of war to go to the middle class. Both funnel resources to the upper class, so in that regard they aren't different.

I don't really have an opinion about this one way or the other, but it's two sides of the same coin. Despite their different rhetoric, they are ultimately one and the same. I've just accepted the fact that I am probably fascist. Honesty is necessary for change.

Is there an instance policy that affects dot world?

Or is it just a personal issue against one person?

I would argue that you should just ban THAT PERSON from your instance. Trying to hurt a whole instance and the whole federation concept over one person being rude on internet feels unreasonable.

People said "doesn't matter which instance you land on when you sign in", trying to lure people into the fediverse simplifying the sign in process. But with these kinds of behaviors is a BIG ISSUE which instance do you choose, making you create multiple accounts on a fragmented fediverse, for things that have nothing to do with you.

How many migrations could normal people who just want to have a social media place to have fun endure? One? Two? Three? After that I would guess many people would give up and just move away from the fediverse because they just have to keep making different accounts to interact with the whole place.

The zionist tactic of censorship in action.

And this is the kind lf people who call others snowflakes when they get upset 🤭

You're the ones having a meltdown 😄

Hidden deep in a mod log

Why does that seem so normalized on here? Well to be fair, on the internet in general

People who yet to emotionally grow up feel powerless due to economic and political circumstances so they use strong language to pretend their words and emotions have any weight behind them.

And they are closely related ideologies, targeting their opposition and critics

It's only ok when Zionists murder other people, not the other way round.

Just delete your Lemmy.world account and switch to another server.

It's only ok when Zionists wish an entire nation of millions of people to be murdered and continue to do so every day. The other way round is not acceptable.

Except at some point if many instances defederate many other instances you cannot get the whole picture from any of those. Destroying the whole point of federation.

Federation is a strength if played right. If played wrong, like defederating a whole instance for a personal issue between admins, federation becomes a weakness and a deterrent for people who just want to have some fun to want to join or stay in the fediverse.

Surprise surprise Lemmy isn't entirely different from Reddit in that:

• It kills a community over the name of one user (yes I'm aware it was an admin)
• Said admin had beef with this user, which they conveniently left out in their post description
• It's got shameless hypocrisy too where calls to death from zionism is acceptable but not the other way around

For the record, I am not for calling anyone's death as that's not my thing, but have some consistency hypocrites. Smh.

What about anti-Taiwan imperialism in China? Because Taiwan claims all of China and the 7 dotted line.

Ukraine supports Zionism because that is an easy to to get support from America.

You cannot be against Zionism and support Ukraine at the same time.

This is honestly pathetic. If the admins want to have an argument at least leave everyone else out of it. Defederation should be an absolute last resort not your first port of call when someone disagrees with you

THEN YOU SHOULD welcome conservative trolls that your way is wrong all the time, and trolling you. it goes both ways. unsolicited trolling is unwarranted, you are free to join that instance. just like conservatives have thier echo chambers

to be fair if you dont like nazis you are pretty pro-censorship too, going by your logic.

Have you considered not being Zionists

Yeah but my way punishes the fascist loving asshole so... seems better.

Also why shouldn't the .world users get to have a voice? Go through this thread they don't like this Zionist piece of shit. Overwhelmingly so. So fuck him and fuck the little toads that defend him.

Same dude.

You can't be an anarchist and love facism this much. Its simply impossible.

Have you considered raising this with the admin team before defederating?? Or with your userbase?? I don't wanna hear shit about hexbear is aUtHoRiTaRiAaAaAn when they have a vote before defederation instead of just throwing a tantrum and reflexively defederating a whole-ass instance because of personal drama between two admins.

yeah but they let their personal drama affect federation which makes it everybodys problem. It's very hard to not see this as lemmy.flatworld trying to throw their weight around to bully smaller instances.

What do you mean? Lots of anarchists dislike state sponsored executions, no matter who's getting executed by the state.

Now if we're talking about an assassin killing Hitler during WW2, then I'm on the assassin's side.

I will censor Nazis from my own sight sometimes if I want to, yeah. They can be very tiresome. But I don't like anyone else making those choices for me. Harder to punch what you can't see.

Edit: and of course this current brouhaha with some admins wanting to censor tankies, Zionists, anti-Zionists, MLs, etc, makes it all worse. That's what's ruining Reddit right now, just with different politics.

I share beliefs with lots of different political movements. I see it as important to discuss these things. It's how we get to the truth.

"Authoritarian" Hexbear has votes before defederating and argues based on what's the best for their users and doesn't just reflexively defederate based on interpersonal drama between two admins.