There's even this rare syndrome, that turns your gut into a micro brewery

Well, it's a cartoon about time travel

Thank you.

Well, there's different levels of christianity at different chapters. I found a chapter that was mostly atheists and would only refer to a "higher power" and even then was like "look really it just means you can't just think about what you want, because you want to get drunk and it's killing you.".

So, you have to think about something greater than whatever itch you have in the moment, if you want to live.

And a claim that was never applied to the wealthy, it's only the poor that benefit from being made poorer.

God gives humans free will

Humans do things with free will

Humans: Thank God!

As a queer malfunctioning alcoholic, they can keep their God.

One day when I was a young boy on holiday in Uberwald I was walking along the bank of a stream when I saw a mother otter with her cubs. A very endearing sight, I'm sure you'll agree, and even as I watched, the mother otter dived into the water and came up with a plump salmon, which she subdued and dragged onto a half submerged log. As she ate it, while of course it was still alive, the body split and I remember to this day the sweet pinkness of its roes as they spilled out, much to the delight of the baby otters, who scrambled over themselves to feed on the delicacy. One of nature's wonders, gentlemen. Mother and children dining upon mother and children.
And that is when I first learned about evil. It is built into the very nature of the universe. Every world spins in pain. If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior.

-Sir Terry Pratchett, Unseen Academicals

"God works in mysterious ways... " Me after stink up the bathroom at the supermarket.

I'm not going to downvote you. Because I think it's great that you found group that was helpful and effective. So a sincere congratulations to you. But waiting around hoping for a Christian group that is not too overly Christian is like waiting for a New York City taxicab to show up in Philadelphia.

A reminder that trying to stop drinking alone can kill you in some cases.

This reminds me of when the first flotilla provided enough of a distraction that Palestinian in Gaza managed to fish for a bit without getting caught, and the top comment under the post said "God is best planner"

Have you read the Bible? Their God is a malignantly narcissistic tyrant.

But you have heard of me.

Ohhhh ok got it. They just had millions of land animals on the made up boat.

No, I understood it completely. It's a mindset of learned helplessness and powerlessness.

It's the same fucking mindset that has people who accomplish terrifying and impossible things on their own accord, giving all of the credit to a non-existent god. No, buddy, you did this.

And somehow brought koalas and kangaroos back to Australia and ONLY to Australia... SOMEHOW the biological world looks as if it evolved in place instead of migrating from a single boat.

But we should steelman religious arguments and then destroy them on the merits, because they have not one argument that holds water even when we steelman them.

Like legit sounds like what a malignant narcissist would think is normal.

I read somewhere that one part of going through the AA (USA) process revolves around channelling the person towards a sense of belief in a higher power; for the already religious, it basically stirs a new found sense, to those without belief it can essentially become into forced "evangelisation", even if not into a formal belief.

I've known a couple of hardcore alcoholics, both in and outside the family, and those who underwent detox, here (Portugal), it involves medication to aid in withdrawal, paired with mental health aid and educating the person on what the alcohol is doing to them. We have two singers, both former heavy drinkers, that are strongly vocal against alcohol abuse; one even states he is not "healed" but "in a never ending healing process".

So, what is all this about throwing people into belief for getting out of an addiction? Medicine is a thing, with proven results.

Does he get credited with the alcoholism too? Why curse so many people with that when they drink themselves to death?

Also switches out alcohol for sweets. I've been to a couple meetings and they always had cookies, cupcakes, and other sugar replacements because they aren't drinking anymore.

They also only talk about alcohol and the times they used to drink. It makes me want to drink more. I need a distraction from the topic of drinking, not to be reminded of it.

for some people it is simply easier to deal with hard things when there is a higher power as external authority to lean against. this can be misused for bad but also used creatively for good. mind has its ways of shaping itself. you can delude yourself into depression (or addiction) or out of it. when there is nothing inherently good or bad in the world the world can become quite meaningless, don't you think?

That's Satan.

I think having everything in the world be inherently good or bad would instead become incredibly meaningless. What's the point if everything is already set in stone?

Addiction is mostly away to avoid thinking or feeling about something. “Getting better” is a combination of resolving current situations, tolerating the internal distress, and learning new, healthy ways to deal.

I'm not a fan of bundling this under “medicine” since I think it has as much more to do with philosophy, spirituality, and psycology than biochemistry, but adding medicine to control physical cravings certainly helps.

Absolutely! Unadorned existential nihilism is a luxury of the comfortable. People who suffer need more, maybe not religion, but something to keep them from autodeleting.

Really recommend Britt's No Nonsense Spirituality on YouTube (or wherever you mirror YouTube) for those looking for the baby in the bathwater of religion.

Good and evil are relative. Those are social constructs our species has been reviewing basically from our inception. I'll grant that, as an individual, feeling alone and small, dealing with overwhelming issues may feel as something one can't overcome by oneself but resorting, immediately, to something outside oneself? It is as dangerous. And I like to think my entire line of ancestors is watching me; sometimes, that feeling of having a personal fan club feels great. But they won't be solving my problems; they're dead.

Fun fact: you can get the same belief effect AA uses to fight addiction by giving someone LSD.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_Dreams_(book)

That’s true. My wife has been sober for more than a year now. She went to AA meetings and did therapy. We are both atheist, and she really hated the religious part of the AA program, but talking with people that went through similar experiences really helped her.

in the US religion, specifically Christians, have a corner on "healing".

want to talk to a therapist? they'll always bring up God or a higher power.

want to talk to a doctor? they work at a facility that's affiliated with a religious doctrine.

need to have surgery? it's a a faith based hospital.

want to get sober? enjoy the calming sounds of the Bible being thumped over your head.

now, there are exceptions to this, but the majority stands that religious belief is a cornerstone to all health and medical facilities in America.

it's really fucked up when you think about it. Imagine going in for surgery and someone comes in to start praying for a successful operation. like...that doesn't give me the highest vote of confidence in the knowledge and talents of the staff that's literally going to cut me open from belly to sternum and peak around at what even I have never seen.

instructions unclear. am now addicted to LS....ohhhh pretty butterflies!

Exactly zero people in the history of humanity got addicted to LSD. I'm not joking.

And you don't hallucinate beings into existence when you're on it, just abstract colors and distortions.

It was actually Fred the red swingline stapler. He does everything and never complaints.

That's ridiculous, there are tons of online chapters, yea I tried three of them and they were all religious crap, but the fourth one was good. But again, it's online, it's as easy as clicking the next link in your search results.

I know AA meetings tended to occur in church basements or meeting rooms and assumed that part was to encourage the use of that resource. Was that the case for the meetings you know of?

Some church administrators are surprisingly non altruistic unless you can point to it being faith-based.

What you have heard about AA is true, I just want to make a couple clarifications. The first, or one of the first, steps of the alcoholics anonymous famous 12 step program is to submit yourself to a higher power. , but nowadays when it comes up they are quick to emphasize that this does not have to be God. It can be a rock or a pet or object, but their system is built off of that. That you must make yourself accountable to something and let it take over some of the decision making responsibilities. I've never been able to see this as anything other than religious thinking and feel it is a distinction without meaning, but if you end up discussing this with proponents of the system be ready for that curve ball. Secondly, to call it the USA system is not correct. It is just one addiction treatment option, though given US religiousity it is the biggest and most will known. Many others are also essentially the same process but a different organization. Where things get tricky is that people that are charged with crimes involving drugs or alcohol are offered leniency in sentencing on condition that they go through an approved addiction program, especially in remote areas AA is sometimes the only option. This has been challenged by atheists and I believe that the courts always end up allowing for them to use a non religious program, but that will only be the people that can afford to make another legal case based on their principals and are able to find an alternative addiction program to enroll in in their area.

It was indeed in a building that belonged to a church.
The whole AA program (the 12 steps book) is very explicitly based on the idea that the only way you can recover from your addiction is through god.