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Back to history: When AIDS patients held die-ins, they went to hospitals, lay down in front of them, and literally waited to die.

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IF I DIE OF AIDS FORGET BURIAL JUST DROP MY BODY ON THE STEPS OF THE FDA

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If you're young & either queer or queer-adjacent, think about the number of people out of the closet you know your own age & think about how many you know your parents age. They're not stamping us out of the mould any quicker these days than in the '60s, except in lockstep with population growth.
I think, growing up, my picture of relative numbers of queer people & straights was unavoidably impacted by the number of empty seats at our table. That might be the case for you too. The number of elders you never got to meet.

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Remember this when people talk about how small the LGBTQIA+ population is. That it's "such a small percentage of the population to be catered too". Remember this and tell them, "that's because homophobia killed them".

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This picture of the San Francisco Gay Men's Chorus is often included with the "The men facing the camera/in white are the surviving members" but it leaves out something extremely important:
By 1996, all of the men facing the camera in the picture were dead.

Every.

Single.

One.

Eric Luse, the photographer, said this in a more recent article:
"The men in white are the surviving members of the original San Francisco Gay Men's choir (sic). The others represent those lost to AIDS," reads the caption.

Luse released the same photo three years later, but this time with an amendment to the caption.
"The Gay Men's Chorus posed to illustrate the impact of AIDS. Those dressed in black, with their backs turned, represent those who had died.
Today, all their backs would be turned because the obituary list is now 47 names longer than the chorus roster. For each man singing these days, more than one chorus member has died of AIDS."
This information started the choral members saying before each performance, "I sing for two."
The SFGMC also maintains their "Fifth Section," a list of members who have been lost to AIDS over the years, "Their names are memorialized in our concert programs and in the list below. Their spirit lives on with us and we honor their memory" they site on the webpage.
By 1996 the obituary list was almost 50 names longer than the entire choral roster. All of the positions plus four dozen more, gone. The obituary list continued to grow, too. The cost and availability of any treatments in the mid-late 90s continued to cause more death.
If you were queer in the 80s and 90s, you knew someone who had it and knew people who died from it. Period. I cannot stress the impact this had on the queer community and those of us who were alive at the time, and I know the scope of it is almost unimaginable to younger people today.
By 1996, there were NO surviving original members of the SFGMC. You need to know that when you see this picture.
The men in white are the surviving members of the original San Fransisco Gay Men's choir. The rest represent those lost to AIDS.

Dozens of the men turned away from the camera here in this shot were also dead alongside the men in white. It is vital to recognize that.
There is no hope in this picture, it isn't a display of a lucky few who avoided death. There is no "Well at least some of them survived" because no, they didn't, and this time was so fucking bleak and painful it's astonishing that anything got done. They'd march one week and die the next. Their friends would bury them in the morning and march in the afternoon. This went on for years.
Bigotry and hate and ignorance killed generations of queer people. It speaks to the sheer resilience of the community that from that all but state-sanctioned genocide, we have gained so much ground in the last few decades. Much is owed to the people who refused to stay quiet and who fought even on their deathbeds, so please consider learning about LGBTQ+ history as a way of continuing the fight and showing respect. Many of us coming of age at that time didn't have that opportunity, and made it a point to learn and get involved as teenagers and young adults because we saw what we were losing.

Sing for two.

Can someone direct me to reading on why the AIDS crisis was as bad as it was for gay men. I've never actually learned anything beyond "it was bad and the governments fault".

Fuck Ronald Reagan

I would highly recommend the podcast/documentary series produced by Slate “When We All Get to Heaven” that follows the Metropolitan Community Church of San Francisco through the AIDS epidemic. I seriously cannot recommend it highly enough.

I still tear up thinking about one of the members that survived through that time. He was in poor health from old age, but was still hitting on the crew interviewing him and was an unbelievable flirt. He expressed in what I believe was his final interview how incredibly happy and thankful he was to be able to tell the world how brave his friends were and how proud he was.

It’s really an incredible series and I wish more people knew about it.

I know that AIDS was originally called GRID, Gay Related Immune Deficiency in the U.S. Presumably research and treatment for a disease impacting (as reported) only gay men was not seen as a priority. The spread having started in non-human primates, then Africans before reaching the "first world" suggest to me that racism was probably part of it

I'm neither gay nor old enough to have been around at the time, but this is what I've read.

Thanks for the recommendation, I wasn't alive in the 80s and wasn't educated on queer topics as a kid.

easy links for others:
their own website> https://www.heavenpodcast.org/all-episodes
spotify> https://open.spotify.com/show/72e0xzkDWilSlqBh95MwHV
apple> https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/when-we-all-get-to-heaven/id1848974503

https://lemmy.world/comment/25316391

Thanks ❤️

And the Band Played On is quite good and goes into some detail. There may be more modern works that are better in certain respects. I quite liked it being written partway through the crisis, but it definitely requires keeping in mind that some parts may be quite dated.

As far as why gay men were more affected than some other groups, there were a few factors that come to mind. Transmission rates vary based on the kind of sex, and penetrative anal has a much higher risk than most other kinds. Casual sex was also incredibly common. Related to that, there was a Canadian fight attendant who was a super spreader. For years after his diagnosis despite knowing full well the death sentence he would pass onto others, he continued to find as many partners as he could in each city he passed through. IIRC this only stopped when he became too sick to continue working.

I'm pretty surethe book covers all of these factors, and in a lot more detail. It's not a light read, but it does manage to capture some of the vitality of the brief era between Stonewall and the AIDS crisis, and it was clearly written as a labor of love for those who were lost.

Neither was I but learning is a beautiful thing.

Thanks for linking to it, I should have and I’m glad that you did as it’s really something special.

Adding to the rest, it was treated as "their fault for doing gay" by not only the government but by many others including medical people who refused to touch or treat them, with even what little could be done, and little/no research. Until Ryan White, a kid who contracted AIDS from a blood transfusion, suddenly confronted society with an INNOCENT VICTIM and also raised the spectre of infection happening to ANYONE who might be in a car crash and need blood. (Of course all the gay men were innocent too, they didn't go out looking to catch AIDS. In Africa the virus was just as prevalent in the heterosexual population and it could have been the same everywhere but the initial spreaders in the West were gay.) It was a Big Deal when Princess Diana visited an AIDS ward and held some hands of suffering men.

there was a Canadian flight attendant who was a super spreader. For years after his diagnosis despite knowing full well the death sentence he would pass onto others, he continued to find as many partners as he could in each city he passed through. IIRC this only stopped when he became too sick to continue working.

Holy hell, that's fucked up. But also, and I'm not trying to be disingenuous, but how is that the government's fault exactly?

From the factors you listed it sounds like the epidemic was due to people having casual, presumably unprotected, anal sex. And one guy singlehandedly acting as a super-spreader.

I'm not trying to suggest that gay people are to blame for it, but that's almost how it sounds from your comment. What exactly did the government do (or not do) that exacerbated the problem worse even than that flight attendant?

Did they draw out the research process unnecessarily long so a cure couldn't be found sooner? Did they withhold the medicine once it had been developed instead of distributing it to everyone who needed it?

I'm legitimately trying to understand, I was too young in the 90s to know what was going on.

https://newrepublic.com/article/117691/aids-hit-united-states-harder-other-developed-countries-why

This article compares death rates in different countries, and compares the responses from governments at the time it was spreading, trying to figure out why the US rate was so high.

Username checks out

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contaminated_haemophilia_blood_products?wprov=sfti1 - here was a big one. Note the FDA role.

Just a bit of a fact check, courtesy of Wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaëtan_Dugas?wprov=sfti1

“In 2016, a group of researchers led by evolutionary biologist Michael Worobey conducted a genetic study that looked at blood samples taken from gay and bisexual men in 1978 and 1979 as part of a hepatitis B study, and based on the results of the data, concluded that Dugas was not the source of the virus in the United States. "On the family tree of the virus, Dugas fell in the middle, not at the beginning."”

President Reagen absolutely refused to even acknowledge AIDS for his entire presidency. So the FDA didn't do anything regarding AIDS.

Thanks, that was an informative article. From what I read, I gather that the main factors which caused the epidemic to be so much worse in the US than in any other developed country, aside from socioeconomic factors that made it more ripe for the spread in the first place, are: 1) ineffective prevention and drug policies from the reagan administration that didn't heed research or best practices being implemented in other countries; 2) shitty healthcare system that can't or won't get people tested and treated in a timely manner; and 3) expensive/unaffordable healthcare that's prohibitive for many people who require treatment.

Am I missing anything?

If only

Growing up in the 80s I remember hearing about "the gay plague" as people were dying of AIDS. This was also in the midst of Satanic Panic, so the message was that God was punishing gay people. Then I heard about a kid that got it from a blood transfusion, and no one had a great answer for that.

Growing up there was a series that aired during the CBC evening news that changed the way many people thought about AIDS.

Dr Peter filmed a series of diary entries sharing his experience with his diagnosis and eventual death.
It was at the time a shockingly truthful account of a horrible disease taking the life of someone you got to know over two years. This is a collection of them in the link.
https://youtu.be/Sf0HlU7mVC8

I later lived in the gay village in Toronto and many of the older gay men that I became friends were HIV positive and taking drugs to keep themselves healthier. We would walk dogs in the park every day past the memorial of hundreds of their friends and lovers lost to AIDS because people didn't care because it wasn't happening to someone they cared about.

Sorry I didn't mean to suggest Gaetan Dugas was patient 0. I had kind of forgotten the book did. I had mostly remembered him for his mobility, and alleged refusal to stop.

It's worth keeping in mind that until AIDS, unprotected sex had basically no consequences for gay men, as compared to straight couples. I suspect me learning to use a condom in high school health class might've been as much AIDS related as pregnancy.

IIRC every single step of the research process was delayed due to blaming gay men for the problem. And would've been delayed a lot more if not for several folks at the CDC risking their careers. The book went into a lot of detail on this, but I'm not sure I can do it justice from memory, but it looks like there are good comments going into a bit more detail.

I don't have time to read this now, but I wanted to offer you thanks for reproducing the text in the body of the post instead of a long screenshot

The crimes of this guilty land will never be purged away but with blood

The complete disregard of the crisis at the beginning. Inside the white house they called it "the gay plague" and many conservatives in the Reagan administration moralized that it was god's punishment for homosexuals. The response to the crisis was willfully delayed, because from their point of view the infected deserved their fate.

Needle exchange programs were framed as endorsing drug use. Safe-sex education was vilified as sexualizing children.

[These attitutes] deeply complicated epidemiologists' efforts. While public health leaders and epidemiologists from the Center for Disease Control (CDC) and National Institute of Health (NIH) attempted to gain control of the epidemic, they also had to contend with Reagan's conservative advisors and aides, who wanted AIDS education to "fit the model of social and religious conservatism that posited gay men as sick and dangerous".

Brier further writes that, "Staff members were flooded with material with vitriolic attacks on homosexuality.

Reagan himself thought AIDS was like measles and it would go away on it's own, no matter what people told him. Only after a personal acquaintance of him died from it, did it dawn on Reagan that this disease that had killed tens of thousands of gay men and intravenuous drug users and infected a lot more, might actually be a problem for non-drug-using heterosexuals too.

Ron Reagan, President Reagan's son, agreed that President Reagan needed the death of someone he personally knew to make him understand the gravity of the AIDS epidemic, as he commented, "My father has the sort of psychology where he grasps onto the single anecdote better than the broad wash of the problem."

The Koop report held great informatiin about what could be done to prevent spread, written in large parts by one Anthony Fauci. But:

Reactions to the report among conservatives were sharply negative. Phyllis Schlafly, the chairperson of the conservative Eagle Forum think tank, was said to have been incensed by the report, saying it "looks and reads like it was edited by the Gay Task Force". She further accused Koop of advocating for teaching third graders "safe sodomy".

have been trying to cultivate that as a culture. ;)

I see. Thanks for the explanation. I think I understand now.

Fuck Reagan. And Nixon too. If it weren't for his war on drugs that made the US so uniquely ripe for the virus to spread, it never would have gotten so bad in the first place.

And seeing as the US was a major incubator for the virus, and how it spread to Europe mainly through US vectors, the entire global epidemic could have potentially been avoided...

That's so fucked up. Fuck Ronald Reagan.

I wish this stuff would be taught better in schools. Like why did I make it so far through life without hearing about it? The only thing is learned about AIDS in school was in health class, and it basically amounted to "Don't have sex, because you'll get pregnant, and you will die."

Other than that, all I really heard about it growing up was from my peers who would make millennial-era dark humor "jokes" about it, my brother who said the reason he hates Freddie Mercury is because he died of AIDS, and the occasional queer friend who said the reason they love Rent and Queen is because of the AIDS pandemic, which I didn't really understand but they wouldn't explain any further because I guess they assumed that if I was ignorant then I must be a troglodyte...

"...has the sort of psychology where he grasps onto the single anecdote better than the broad wash of the problem."

Holy hell, that's conservative psychology in a nutshell.

The Koop report held great information about what could be done to prevent spread, written in large parts by one Anthony Fauci.

So that's why they hated him so badly... I had no clue there was so much history behind that shit. The context surrounding the handling of covid suddenly makes so much more sense...

This shit should be taught in history classes.

Also, my launcher keeps inexplicably crashing as I'm typing these comments, and failing to save any drafts. So now I'm wondering if the gubment has a backdoor into my phone or something...

I remember watching And the Band Played On when it came out. I think that was when I really started to grasp the horror of those times. Prior to that I only knew HIV/AIDS as the gay cancer as it was called. The film really hit me hard at the time. I wonder if it still holds up.

A big point you are also missing is information spread. How to use condoms for example was not a prevalent skill in 3 or 4 generations back. It was even vilified. My grandmother for example refuses to talk about genitalia and just refers to it as the thing and that my granddads penis was "confusing". This is a problem for me because there is evidence from my brother that we maybe have a genetic problem in that regard in my family.

There was no Internet so the government and the public in general refusing to address it hampered the information spread massivly

God fucking damnit, every time I'm typing a comment in this thread my launcher crashes and doesn't save a draft. I swear to fucking god some fed has a backdoor on my phone and does NOT want me talking about this...

Edit:

Okay so the gist of what I was typing out had to do with me being homeschooled to avoid learning sex ed and being taught that stuff from a religious perspective, and internalizing patterns around it similar to the ones your grandmother has. To this day, condoms still gross me out and make me feel shameful...