I don't want to be the change to make it happen. I don't want to be the beta tester of a product that's supposed to be getting me around. What I want is I want a product that works I want something that functions when I need it to. When I go to an area that I am unfamiliar with and I'm using maps to try to find a house location a business whatever it is I don't want to have to go in and beta test somebody else's shit. That's how Matt's work.

I use google maps in the browser on my phone without an account logged in. Every single time I open it, it gives me a pop up message begging me to use their app with two buttons at the bottom that are blatantly dark patterned and misleading to get you to accidentally click on their app store link.

I really don't see how NG911 is going to help when all my callers can tell me sometimes is something like that they're near some trees, a big rock, and a brick wall. That's not exactly something I can punch into my CAD. Or when it's a 3rd party caller for their grandmother in a different town who needs help, but all they can give me is that it's a big yellow house about 2 blocks from the elementary school with a statue of a cow on the front lawn.

There's a lot of cool things that NG911 can help with, some of it is already implemented in my county, but they're largely not the things I use Google maps for.

udm14.com does not appear to be affected.

Soon; "Or click here and we will stop bugging you for this and use you ip, mouse movement behaviors, scroll lag time and recent cookie history to identify you without having to even log in!"

Better to use the udm14 for a custom search engine than to route your traffic through a separate party.

https://www.google.com/search?q=%25s&udm=14, depending in the formatting of your browser.

That is a point you need to bring up in your official capacity with the 911 dispatch you work for. Tell them what is going on and ask for a system account to be set up for each agent so that it’s just a formal login that is tied to the job and nothing else.

Well we also have to take solar flares and GPS satellites into account. Can only do so much on a terrestrial level.

How ironic that Google signs me out of my account every 12 hours. It's exceedingly frustrating and I have no idea how to fix it. I've got a passkey set up with MFA—I'd have thought that would be enough.

The only stumbling block I have found is that I have a couple accounts where my email address is my sign on and it cannot be changed. I would need to set up a new account with my new email address.

Other than that, it's been like you said. A bit daunting at first but one day I'll break that chain and never look back.

Which is why I'm building my own self hosted map application

Fuck Google with an umbrella

Make sure to tell the owner of the site why you don't wasn't to use it anymore.

Then stop whining about a community project and fucking buy a physical map.

Biggest issue I had, was my own address wasn't accurate. Like didn't exist. The one they showed at my house, was inaccurate. So if I can't even map my own house, then if I go into a place I'm not familiar with......

Details?

OpenStreetMap ftw

An ironic twist to the tragedy of the commons.

Separately, you should read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seeing_Like_a_State and look at the context of why things are unfamiliar in the first place.

I agree with all your points. Just wanted to add that for bicycling, the OsmAnd app is superior to Google Maps, simply because the Google Map app doesn't honor modified routes.

On the desktop, Google Maps lets you map bicycle directions, but they're dangerously bad. Dangerous routes when it could have preferred a bike route or greenway, not understanding that sometimes you have to become a pedestrian for a few feet and use a crosswalk, or cross a patch of dirt, etc. And you have to force it into a safer route by adding the "drag to change route" dots and dragging them to the roads it should have used. However, if you share that route URL with the Google Maps app, it ignores all the changes and reverts to the bad route.

So instead I have to put that URL into GPS Visualizer and convert it to a GPX which OsmAnd honors. There are other GPX conversion websites too, but I've noticed subtle changes to my route when I was using those other sites.

All this could be avoided if the Google Maps app would just honor the desktop URLs, but it's been this way for years so I doubt it will ever happen.

EDIT: fixed the link

They will make everything mandatory log in for 100% named tracking soon, unless regulations call for otherwise.

These tech companies are the ones demanding ID laws to use the internet on computers. Microsoft OS already serves unique identifiers that can track down computers, and they want to close the loop.

They already have an overwhelming amount of information about us anyway, but the more perfect the dataset the more power, control and advertising revenue it affords.

These billionaire owned companies all want to enslave us all with absolute control. Call me paranoid or dismiss what I’m saying if you would like, but unless we can fix our politics in all of our respective areas to free them from the yoke of big money it will only get worse.

https://www.comaps.app/

Wondering if I should be on comaps or osmand

This is the way. It's up to the employer to provide adequate tools for the job, if they decide to make others off-limits.

Oh it's not just tech companies, it's tech companies getting ahead of the government who is going to demand the same thing. Say something that the government doesn't agree with, boom, you already have the information readily available.

We could fight against it and refuse to use these services, but that would change the things we are all addicted to.

Except the government wanting this information didn't exist. That's the future, you ID will be tracked (it already is) and the government will know exactly what you say, where you go, and what you do. Throw it at an 'AI' for 'normalcy' and you have Minority Report in a much sadder way.

Nope, didn't work. I tried zapping elements with ublock but it wouldn't load the business hours.

For Google, the primary difference between a logged-in user and one who is not logged in is the absence of any contractual agreement that legally binds the anonymous user to terms assigned by Google.

I haven't read a Google EULA in some time, but as I recall it was long and full of rights and waivers and privileges and protections you assign Google in regard to anything wherein you might possibly have legal standing. The log-in request is not universal, nor is it random, so it's safe to assume as a hypothetical that for whatever reason, Google wants that in this specific scenario, in this specific geographical region.

On the other hand, if you're not signed in -- AND Google can't link your anonymous use to an actual agreement you have with them elsewhere -- Google just doesn't have that same comfortably protected legal situation. (See Disney's recent legal behavior for an example of why, if Google can still link your non-signed-in behavior to an existing EULA elsewhere in their walled garden, you may still be fucked.)

OP's map seems to be located in the EU, which makes a legal difference as well. We already know that Google does whatever the fuck Google wants in the US, but in the EU laws tend to have more teeth as well as legislators very willing to go after violators.

All that said, I am not an attorney in Spain and I damn sure don't work for Google, so don't come at me lol.

Oh the irony of installing that app through Google Play 🫠

Everyone is under suspicion. Criticism of Israeli genocides detected! Apply terrorism charges. Right to a jury ignored or circumvented.

This pisses me off as well, but it is essential to get it working in Android Auto. They purposefully block "maps"-type apps from showing no matter what I do via ADB (spoofing the "Installed from Google Play" requirement, for example). Best I can do is login to a throwaway account on Play, download OsmAnd (or similar), and disable networking (GrapheneOS) again for the "Play Services" app.

Also make sure to use Google Takeout to download all of your data! It’s much easier to grab your old emails this way, plus lots of other data you might not even know Google had on you.

I have used ytdlp before but mostly to download music. It’s really powerful though I’m quite lazy about doing the research into all of its features.

Discoverability is still important to me. I should check out invidious, since I’ve never heard of it! Thanks!

Up here in Canada, most of our dispatch services use google maps within the primary system as the base map layer with an option to launch our system on the software's own cartography as backup but those maps are fairly out of date for the most part.

Beyond that, we have a provincially run platform that is actually even more up to date than Google Maps (and includes way more info, one good example is it gives us every single transformer and power pole across the province). That software gives us numerous base layer options, including Google Maps, satellite, and OpenStreenMaps. Most operators prefer the OSM base layer but having the option to switch rapidly to compare which is more detailed in a given area is so valuable.

You’re not wrong, the map isn’t really the right place for that. Yet the map should provide a way to get from the physical location to more information about the place (physical building and logical business entity)

What’s the open equivalent of Yelp?

Because you’re not trained on it yet. New world sucks and so does the ally list from the phone companies. This is based on geospatial information and has been proven and is active in some counties working better and more efficiently. Everything you said is exactly what every dispatcher says when they get new tech you’re afraid to learn something new that’s better.

Those are the vibes you're giving now. How about you actually try to explain how NG911 is gonna help with those scenarios I gave, because I don't see any way the technologies involved that I've been told about are going to save me from having to manually look around on Google maps (or similar kind of service) to figure out where I need to enter a call.

Sure, I suppose they'll be able to send me a picture or a video, instead of trying to describe it to me, but I'm still going to need to match that up to the real world somehow.

And sure, maybe our location data will be a bit better, but if they're driving 5 minutes before pulling over to call, that location data won't tell me what side of the road they were on when the accident actually happened.

I don’t have to because you obviously are one of the dispatchers who’s going to bitch and complain about every single point. And you’re also grossly underestimating how impactful this is. I’m a geospatial information scientist this is currently being established in the NE right now and it is helping better than old world systems. I’m not going to explain to you my job when there’s federal guidelines showing how this will be impactful. Go educate yourself I already got my degrees.

You're a fucking corporation stooge who's huffing your own farts.

There's a lot of places where ng911 is going to be very helpful, this isn't one of them and if you had any actual confidence that it would be helpful I this situation you'd be singing it's fucking praises explaining how.

Someone’s pissed off they have to do a new job and refuses to read documentation which is my proof. I don’t see why I’d have to re type it out for you to understand. Also I don’t work for a corporation I work for the government and this is live already and works better. If you want to know more about that you can read the fucking documentation you uneducated phone call taker. Go back to just picking up a fucking phone and leave the actual decision to people with degrees because we know what we’re doing because we fucking read. I’d be surprised if you could name me 10 books in person you read this year.

https://www.911.gov/issues/ng911/ Here you go. Now learn. It works better and I don’t have time to explain my whole fucking degree to a phone answerer when you just need to know it works better pick up the fucking phone.

And not a damn part of that has anything that would keep me from having to look around on Google maps or something similar trying to match up a vague description of a location that my caller may not even be at to something that I can enter into our system.

For someone so hung up on reading, you're really fucking bad at comprehend what the issue is that I'm describing.

Sure, I may getter more accurate location info, maybe even good enough to tell what side of the street my caller is on now, but I'm still going to need to figure out what side of the road they were on when an incident actually happened to figure out jurisdiction, because they may have turned around, pulled over 2 blocks away, turned I to a parking lot across the street, or waited 6 hours and went home before calling.

So one way or another I'm going to need to look for landmarks on a map or something like Google street view that my caller will recognize and get them to describe where they were in relation to those landmarks.

And sure they'll be able send me pictures or video call me to show me where they're talking about. If it's live video that combined with location data while they're still on-scene that would certainly be great, but otherwise I'm still gonna have to be hunting around on a map trying to figure out which of the 6 Sunoco gas stations in town they sent me a picture of.

And they can text me, which is something we've had in my county for a while. Great for people who aren't able to talk for one reason or another, but not exactly a dramatic upgrade over asking the same questions and getting the same answers verbally

PSAP registries, better interoperability with other PSAPs, etc. is nice, but totally besides the issue here. Both sides of the border could be departments we dispatch for and I just need to know which one to send

And better address lists, ALI info, phone records and such are nice, but if they're not at their home address, they don't know the name of the business they're calling about, and all they can give me is that it happened "in the park with a statue that looks like a dick" or "that vacant lot where Bob's Deli used to be" (Bob's Deli, as it turns out, burned down in 1983) none of that is particularly helpful.

Again, there are really good use cases for NG911, and I'M not denying that. Every day I find some circumstance where I'd love to have those promised capabilities that are allegedly just around the corner for us.

But none of them solve this problem.

And you've been sold on the idea that ng911 is some sort of magical pill that's going to give every dispatcher $10,000, a pony, and a blowjob while the calls practically handle themselves, and that's just not the case.

So get your head out of your fucking ass.

Not reading any of that go pick up a fucking phone.

So much for

we know what we’re doing because we fucking read.

Guess you don't actually know what the fuck you're doing.

Yeah sorry I don’t feel like wasting my time writing a paragraph like you to explain why it’s better when you can just read. You’re just a little pissed off 911 dispatcher. Answer phones for a living. Who gives a fuck you’re going to have to use this new software and you’ll realize it I don’t have to prove shit. I make wayyyy more than you and have wayyy more responsibility than answering a fucking phone so yeah go ahead and claim that but I bet you’re little a complete asshole know it all in real life and probably fucking suck at your job and what you fucking do that’s why you’re a miserable cunt online replying to me.

I've read what you've linked and plenty of other info about NG911, and like I've said multiple times I'm looking forward to the new capabilities it's going to give us.

I still don't see how any of it helps with the sorts of things I end up needing to look around on Google maps for.

I am very willing to be proven wrong about that. All you need to do is point out what specific parts of NG911 you think will help, and this conversation will end and I'll admit I was wrong and you were right and you're not doing that. Instead you're just being a miserable asshole while I'm trying to have a conversation with you and understand what you're trying to say.

So excuse me for matching your energy. I kind of relish the opportunity to be honest, I spend 12 hours a day at work talking to assholes like you who won't listen to me when I'm trying to tell them how to not fucking die, and needing to be polite and professional to them. It's pretty damn cathartic to call you out for being a dickhead and I'm not going to apologize for that.

I like my job, I like talking about it so that people understand how it works and how to access the help they need. I can only assume that you hate what you do and that's why you're acting this way. Sure, you make more money than me. I don't give a fuck, my needs are met, I'm happy, and you clearly aren't. Find a job you want to tell people about and help them understand what it is you do.