The idea that only pure people are allowed to make things, and that you are allowed to only enjoy things made by pure people, lest you become impure by enjoying them, is a childish view held by the extremists on the right and the left, and such an ignorant idea should be left to fools.

He literally cited me as saying that?! I have every right to call that out.

Besides, everyone agrees that Tolkien supported the nationalists in the Spanish civil war. Saying that "Tolkien loves fascism" is an entirely different topic.

Devil's in the details.

George Orwell was a real one for that!

Your title is literally "Tolkien supported fascist Spain". So sorry I read between the lines and used the no-no words to call out an unfair, dishonest, and deeply stupid title, enjoy your holy refuge in civility.

He was a devout Catholic and Franco's Spain was very close with the church.

Homage to Catalonia might be my favourite Orwell book. You can kind of see all the seeds being planted for his later more famous books in his experiences there.

Your title is literally “Tolkien supported fascist Spain”

And that's not true?

used the no-no words to call out an unfair, dishonest, and deeply

Calm down.

I remember and admire him for his political ideas. Some of them, anyway. His understanding of the corrupting influence of power on power-havers is singular and illuminating of the motives of those who seek power. He also has some very silly and unfortunate ideas about blood politics and who is deserving of power that intersect with his ideas about corruption in some fascinating ways. He's a complicated guy, and I think it's worth it to pick through his complications rather than deciding whether he belongs in the "good guy" bucket or the "bad guy" bucket and moving on.

Did Tolkien support fascist Spain, tho?

Oh please, we know exactly what you're saying directly as well as implying. Someone summing it up simply doesn't change the message.

Unless .... The only reason this wouldn't make sense is if the summary was off.....

Are you saying that Tolkien didn't love fascism, or are you saying that the nationalists during the Spanish civil war weren't fascists? Are you glad he liked them?

This right here.

we know exactly what you’re saying

If ya'll know my secret thoughts then tell me what I think bout ya'll's MOMMAs!

If I had to guess... It's you dodging the question. I'm just going to assume you liked Spanish nationalists and don't think they were fascists.

I’m just going to assume you liked Spanish nationalists and don’t think they were fascists.

That's actually insane of you.

I mean, that's one of the only reasons you would argue against someone saying that you're claiming Tolkien loved fascism.

Jesus I really thought I was the only one sick of hearing Tolkien worship. For me its more just how lackluster the women are, given how few appear to begin with.

Yeah, I think that's a valid criticism. Off the top of my head, the women of LotR are:

Eowyn (A good character, I think, even though her one big moment, killing the Witch King, is undercut with a pretty stupid "get it, you thought 'man' meant human but she's a girl!" twist and she gets unceremoniously hitched with Faramir to tie her story off. Not Tolkien's best work)
Galadriel (Queen of Lorien, sure, wielder of Nenya, ok cool, refuses the One Ring, well done very wise, but not much of a character in the story, more a vehicle for exposition)
Arwen (Aragorn's objet d'amour and... end of list)
The Old Woman in the Houses of Healing in Minas Tirith (can't remember her name, basically an old lady clown iirc)
Lobelia (Shrewish but she does resist Sharkey at the end, offscreen, so partial character credit I guess)
Rosie (Sam's Arwen)

Those are slim pickins. I can forgive Tolkien for writing a male-dominated war story, I imagine that's what his experience with war (and, culture generally) was like. I think his fixation on race, lineage, and hereditary right of power are more severe undercuts to his critique of abuse of power.

EDIT: 😆 I wanted to check my work and found there's a whole separate wikipedia article on the subject https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_The_Lord_of_the_Rings

I'm leaving this conversation. But I'll be sure to hide in your walls and turn your USB ports upside down.

K, have fun being a coward I guess

Tolkien's Tokens.

How did they miss Goldberry?

I can't believe I forgot Goldberry! Old Tom does tend to chew the scenery, maybe that's it. Good catch.

The Wikipedia entry missed her too! I wouldn’t be surprised if an individual missed several characters, but I didn’t expect the wiki to skip her. I had to double check that she does actually appear in the fellowship, because I could totally see it just having been tom mentioning her.