People talk like alcohol is this untouchable pillar of society but, like, there's one big prohibition success story being ignored here. The core problem with the original Prohibition is that it didn't build up public legitimacy for such a move before doing it.

Counterpoint: Alcohol in Muslim societies. With few exceptions (namely the Balkans), every society that converted to Islam promptly stopped drinking alcohol, so clearly something like Prohibition can work if better executed.

Very good success story when "proper punishment is flogging, though legal scholars disagree over whether the number of lashes should be 40 or 80".

I mean, it worked, hence success story. Besides, there's no nice way to enforce something via state violence, and Muslim flogging (as opposed to the stuff, say, Singapore is famous for) isn't any more brutal than the crippling fines or imprisonment doled out by modern states.

I don't know about time-limited bans, but the way cigarettes have been handled seems to have been pretty effective. Don't ban but instead discourage use in a variety of ways, prohibit advertising, replace with anti-smoking propaganda campaigns, gradually limit permitted public consumption as usage comes down (which it has).

I could see alcohol getting the same sort of treatment in theory, it also has well documented harms to justify doing so. One thing I'd like to see is more social spaces/events for adults that don't implicitly revolve around alcohol consumption. You can't really prevent people who want to drink from doing it, but you could make it less convenient and more convenient for people who don't drink. For instance maybe establishments that serve alcohol shouldn't be allowed to have dedicated parking, since the expectation that someone is going to drive somewhere, drink little enough that they're still entirely good to drive, and then have to either drive back home or face a huge hassle, sets people up for bad decisions.

That's a pretty rosy take but ok

Some people will go through dangerous withdrawals. Having been through that, you're gonna have to propose how we'll care for people who face that before I get onboard. That's way before I complain that I don't want you to take away my alcohol; people die from going cold turkey.

It taught us what happens when you try to make it illegal. Afterwards, it was legalised again, but with some government oversight. Seems to have worked out better than to prohibition era.

Strangely, drugs are still illegal though. I expect that having some government oversight with drugs should have a similar effect.

Except smoking usage has increased in recent years.

Bans don't stop people.

Look at what happened during prohibition.

Right - the mob jumped in influence courtesy of prohibition.

It's how (as you mention) the Kennedy's became The Kennedy's.

I don't drink (anymore) and I downvote, so I'm no alcoholic.

But nice sophistry attempt by employing an ad-hom. That's always so convincing

Ah, nice to clearly show your sophistry and disingenuous argumentation.

Hahahaha, so the mob growing in power massively was a success?

You're a riot.

Where are you getting that from? All the sources I'm seeing show dramatic long term decline, at least in the US, where the policies I'm talking about are in effect https://www.lung.org/research/trends-in-lung-disease/tobacco-trends-brief/overall-smoking-trends

I agree that prohibition was a bad idea, and any measures that go far enough to create a black market for alcohol should be avoided, but there are other things that could be tried.

Hate to spoil things but I know lot of Muslims that regulary consume alcohol. Also alcoholis not banned in modern muslim countries like Turkey, Azerbaijan, Albania. It's ban in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, ... all democratic countries.

You'd think the manufacturers of Xanax would absolutely be in favor of a ban for this reason.

Hate to spoil things but I know lot of Muslims that regulary consume alcohol.

I mean, sure, but those are (outside the Balkans) the overwhelming minority. Most of the first 30 or so entries on the list of countries by alcohol consumption per capita are Muslim countries for a reason.

Also alcoholis not banned in modern muslim countries like Turkey, Azerbaijan, Albania

It's not banned in most of them, but Muslims (for the most part) don't drink it anyway, because irrespective of the law the religious prohibition is taken seriously. That's what I meant by public legitimacy: Islam got the vast majority of Muslims to quit alcohol by giving them a reason to do so (that reason being "God said so").

I agree, but I think there should be overwhelming evidence of endemic society-wide danger to support the banning of things instead of needing overwhelming evidence of the safety of things for them to be allowed.

Most drugs, like alcohol, have the potential for abuse but aren’t abused (to the detriment of others) by the vast majority of the population. The minority of people who have problems with them should have mental heath support available (if we actually did that in most countries) or be helped by a reformative (or isolating) legal system if the drug use enables violent tendencies.

The fact that a few people abuse anything doesn’t mean that we need to, by default, outlaw that thing. There should have to be a really good reason for it (e.g., garage bioweapon research)

right before COVID, actually:

January 14, 2020

In 1919, Congress passed the 18th Amendment, instituting the ban. It went into effect on January 17, 1920 — 100 years ago, this Friday — and lasted 13 years.

It is important to note that alcohol becomes a dependency. You cannot dry out like Amy Winehouse tried to do:

It will kill you.

You see, alcohol causes the body to stop creating GABA inhibitors. Without these inhibitors, the muscles will use all available energy.

This is why drunks get the shakes.

Without these inhibitors, your heart is going to pump, your diaphragm will vibrate, and your brain will burn.

You cannot just abolish alcohol. You are literally lining up a death sentence.

Are you going to outlaw yeast and orange juice? That's why the prohibition failed: the need and the simplicity in making it. Very, very bad idea.

Oh, and we are going to bad mouth wash, vanilla extract, isopropyl alcohol... seriously, how could one ban beer?

Let's ban nitrogen! It is inert anyway.

You know how messed up people can get off of oxygen?

Look, we aren't talking about meth, or those in the know call them "Go" pills.

Just drink responsibly like you would eat responsibly.

edit: So many morbidly obese people in my life, like it is silly amounts, have criticized me for bringing a beer to a cookout.

Like, they are taller laying down than standing up, and telling me how I am killing myself with a beer. Seriously, I would have to use my toes to get a count. /facetious, I know excel...

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lol

With all due respect, "God said so" is not a good reason. The moment people accept that is the moment they give up their freedom. Because "God said so" is the cause of most of the suffering in history. Especially because of modern religions like Judaism, Christianity and Islam, they are the most bloodthirsty religions in the history of mankind. So every one of their messages "don't eat meat", "don't eat pork", "don't drink alcohol", "don't eat cheese" has no logic and is ridiculous.

My tinfoil hat theory is that bars were gathering places and occasionally the government hates those.

Letting women have basic rights probably helped out with the domestic situation more than prohibition.

Finally a reason to drink those bottles that are collecting dust

After all, they had to ban buying gin by the pint.

It comes in pints?

Wouldn't really mind heavily restricting alcohol advertising. Like only allow it in areas that sell it if you consider posters to be advertising.

Include gambling while you are at it.

Alcohol withdrawal can kill, very few other substances are as dangerous to cut suddenly.

Seen a few posts before of Muslims asking how to make some because its illegal where they live.

Yeah. Xanax is one of them. Also treats alcohol withdrawals.

All prohibition does is deny the government of taxes on the booze that is sold regardless