One pedophile argues with another:

White Jesus from the middle east

Too real for some folks here, obviously.

My pedophiles are better than your pedophiles! Why? It says so right here in my holy book!

You know how we tell the story about brutally murdering the Son of God? We want to put that on display, all the time, in His House, so He never ever forgets.

God is love!

Catholicism lore and practices are actually pretty metal if you think about it.

Carry a figure of the dying tortured son of god in a little chain on your neck. Nailed to a cross, speared through the chest, and with a fucking spine crown.

Spikes and a skull tattoos have NOTHING on Catholic paraphernalia.

‘long as he’s white’

Also Islam:

Literally the second commandment:

2 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.

Anybody that's read the Bible knows Jesus was a White man from New Jersey.

Then literally eat his flesh and blood in a ritual to commemorate his death.

But don't forget, Jesus is also God. Fully, but also distinct. So we're reminding Him about how He had himself killed so that He could forgive us because some lady who didn't know anything didn't follow His directions

No symbols allowed or no idols allowed?

Are these actual passages?

I looked up 8:65 because it irked me, and it says: (Link)

O Prophet! Motivate the believers to fight. If there are twenty steadfast among you, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are one hundred of you, they will overcome one thousand of the disbelievers, for they are a people who do not comprehend.

The others are also similarily reduced - so i'd say these "translations" above are not accurate because they have been shortened as far as possible, but they capture the gist of it.

Edit: 8:60 says for example:

Prepare against them what you ˹believers˺ can of ˹military˺ power and cavalry to deter Allah’s enemies and your enemies as well as other enemies unknown to you but known to Allah. Whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be paid to you in full and you will not be wronged.

9:30 ff:

The Jews say, “Ezra is the son of Allah,” while the Christians say, “The Messiah is the son of Allah.” Such are their baseless assertions, only parroting the words of earlier disbelievers. May Allah condemn them! How can they be deluded ˹from the truth˺?

They have taken their rabbis and monks as well as the Messiah, son of Mary, as lords besides Allah, even though they were commanded to worship none but One God. There is no god ˹worthy of worship˺ except Him. Glorified is He above what they associate ˹with Him˺!

They wish to extinguish Allah’s light with their mouths, but Allah will only allow His light to be perfected, even to the dismay of the disbelievers.

He is the One Who has sent His Messenger with ˹true˺ guidance and the religion of truth, making it prevail over all others, even to the dismay of the polytheists.

Not exactly "perverts", that is not what this says, and this specific passage also does not mention fighting. But it's also not exactly a nice view of others, and other parts are very vocal about what to do with disbelievers.

for example at 22:16 - 22:21

Indeed, the believers, Jews, Sabians, Christians, Magi, and the polytheists—Allah will judge between them ˹all˺ on Judgment Day. Surely Allah is a Witness over all things.

Do you not see that to Allah bow down ˹in submission˺ all those in the heavens and all those on the earth, as well as the sun, the moon, the stars, the mountains, the trees, and ˹all˺ living beings, as well as many humans, while many are deserving of punishment. And whoever Allah disgraces, none can honour. Surely Allah does what He wills.

These are two opposing groups that disagree about their Lord: as for the disbelievers, garments of Fire will be cut out for them and boiling water will be poured over their heads,

melting whatever is in their bellies, along with their skin.

And awaiting them are maces of iron.

Looking at actual translation at the first one, https://quran.com/al-baqarah/191

"Kill them wherever you come upon them and drive them out of the places from which they have driven you out. For persecution is far worse than killing. And do not fight them at the Sacred Mosque unless they attack you there. If they do so, then fight them—that is the reward of the disbelievers."

If you read the verse before it, https://quran.com/al-baqarah/190, the Quran talks about it in the context of war.

"Fight in the cause of Allah ˹only˺ against those who wage war against you, but do not exceed the limits. Allah does not like transgressors."

The passage clearly says about defending, in the context war. And do it only against the aggressors. And also not to exceed the limits, which means proportionate response.

It makes sense to fight back. Akin to the Ukrainian defending against Russian invasion.

For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,

Wow what a good entity that is totally deserving of my worship.

Nothing says divinity better than petty human emotions like jealousy, and open threats to my unborn children and grandchildren.

Let's not forget that he's the one that invented the rules that allegedly required such a stupid and convoluted plan.

I mean any likeness of anything anywhere by the looks of it. So I guess that would include both?

Also jealousy is illegal according to the the Christian Constitution.

The passage clearly says about defending, in the context of war.

Could this be interpreted as in any type of war, and not just a defensive war? It doesn't seem clear to me via the english translation.

And also not to exceed the limits, which means proportionate response.

Could this not also mean the limits interpreted through other passages elsewhere in the Scripture?

In Christianity, the crucifixion is the moment of victory. Christ’s sinless death is what allows mankind to be redeemed, and that was the plan all along. So they see the crucifixion as holy, though it is also mourned. It is used as a reminder of the love God has for his people and as a sort of “try to be better” thing.

any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them.

So making fish statues are ok, but don't worship a fish statue as an idol. I don't see an issue with making a likeness to something as long as you're not worshipping it

Could this be interpreted as in any type of war, and not just a defensive war? It doesn't seem clear to me via the english translation.

2:190 says to fight only against those who wage war against you. So it sounds like defensive war to me.

Could this not also mean the limits interpreted through other passages elsewhere in the Scripture?

So I clicked on the tafsir of this verse by scholars more knowledgeable than me:

"(but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allah likes not the transgressors.)

This Ayah means, Fight for the sake of Allah and do not be transgressors,' such as, by committing prohibitions. Al-Hasan Al-Basri stated that transgression (indicated by the Ayah), "includes mutilating the dead, theft (from the captured goods), killing women, children and old people who do not participate in warfare, killing priests and residents of houses of worship, burning down trees and killing animals without real benefit." This is also the opinion of Ibn Abbas, Umar bin Abdul-`Aziz, Muqatil bin Hayyan and others. Muslim recorded in his Sahih that Buraydah narrated.

...

(Fight for the sake of Allah and fight those who disbelieve in Allah. Fight, but do not steal (from the captured goods), commit treachery, mutilate (the dead), or kill a child, or those who reside in houses of worship.)

It is reported in the Two Sahihs that Ibn `Umar said, "A woman was found dead during one of the Prophet's battles and the Prophet then forbade killing women and children. " There are many other Hadiths on this subject"

So my bad, it's not talking about proportionate response. But it teaches the limits of how to conduct yourself during such war.

Apologies, I misunderstood your question. I do wonder if you've seen how Catholics treat such depictions. I'd say they worship it or at least use it as an idol.

Person from Muslim background here. Let me try to explain. As with all sacred texts, Quran includes many contradicting parts, where other are open to interpretation. Also, Quran was "revealed" as small passages over Muhammad's life. He claimed to receive messages in the context of the current events. To complicate things even more, standard Quran is not compiled in chronological order.

Passages from early Islam where Muslims were a persecuted minority, the texts are more about peace and harmony. As Muslims increased in numbers and influence, the passages have also turned more aggressive.

For example 2:62 says

Indeed, the believers, Jews, Christians, and Sabians—whoever ˹truly˺ believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good will have their reward with their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor will they grieve.

The final ones are indeed about any war, and dominating the space they exist in. Give them ultimatum and then fight until they ask for mercy.

The main message to take here is, by choosing which part to quote, you can make it say anything you want. Sounds familiar?

Given the context of when it was written, those seem like admirable limits on an army.

Idolatrous iconography is cute, but the real elephant in the room with Abrahamics these days is bibliolatry. Hate to make a Potter reference, but so many of these people think their God is Tom Riddle.

It takes a finger to point at the moon, so look at the moon, not the finger.

The God of the Bible is literally a Monster.

That last bit sounds like the lake of fire in the Bible: a threat of posthumous torture rather than instructions for the living.

So no Cat pictures? This is not a world I want to live in.

No, it clearly says: "You shall not make...", and then adds the reason at the end. It seems God doesn't even want you making it for any reason, because you might use it to worship. Banning images eliminates the temptation.

You are correct. It's a long text with many parts, so you can make it say anything by conveniently picking your quotes.

One way you can think of idolatry is by analogy to the concept of map and territory. The map is not the territory, and that can be far more of a rabbit hole than it sounds at first glance. For instance, you do not experience reality directly, full stop. Your entire experience of life is actually a living map of life generated by reality's interactions with your senses which are then filtered and interpreted by the rest of your bodily and cognitive systems.

And so it is for those who believe in and cultivate a relationship with their deities - a direct experience that will always be impossible to fully achieve, and is nevertheless expected they spend their lives chasing.

Christ’s sinless death is what allows mankind to be redeemed, and that was the plan all along.

A good 'ol death cult.

"The only moral idol is my idol."

And then there's korean Jesus.

True, but also the commandments aren't actually numbered. IIRC, there are 13 "Shalls" and "Shall nots". So Catholics lump that section in with the first (no other gods, etc.) while the Protestants make room by joining "don't covet wife/property". There's arguments to support both sides when looking at the historical context but on that specific issue I'd lean toward the Catholic interpretation making more sense considering god is telling people to make statues shortly after (Exodus 25:18). Either way it's silly to be arguing over rules that bronze age people invented.

"You shall not make for yourself..."

That means it's ok to just buy it, or you can make them and sell them. So long as you don't make one and keep it for yourself.

No wonder Jesus hasn't come back. We never miss a chance to remind him of what happened last time

It's for sure interpretable that way. That is the problem with all of this ancient scripture - we do not have enough context to really know what they meant.

I was discussing this - of all places - under a Jućika comic a few weeks back. We don't even have enough common era knowledge to 100% make sure to understand comic strips from Hungary in the 60's after the Tankies arrived, how could we ever interpret something thousands of years old with a high degree of confidence?

This is Known. Goth fashion is basically a very involved parody of what Catholic aristocrats used to wear (this is why you get all the “sexy nun” stuff too)

Portraying people from the middle east as european helps to normalize zionism.

I'm not sure that's the interpretation that Catholics go with, and I don't think they idolize the statues they make. Either way the qualifier, as I'm reading it, is that they make the thing to worship the thing.

And is also omnipotent and allknowing.

also you can build them out of clay. ain't nothing about fired images

and bland and flavorless and crumbly

Top part was like a 7 second duckduckgo search...

literally

Literally tho?