Only fan

Well....sure but there's people who reviee coolers with a decibel reader so they can equalize noise level when testing.

Imo though air cooling is still louder than water cooling. I have both and while i appreciate thaf air colling is great too today and probably peace of mind, but a nice rgb liquid aio is also not expensive these days....specially compared to what the other PC parts cost now...

They sell a range of fans, not all are quiet.

Have CPUs or motherboards gone up much? At that point you just lack RAM. Can you boot an OS with just CPU cache?

Also if you want Doom, just about any second hand machine will be fine.

Tell me you don't understand how PWM works without telling me you don't understand how PWM works.

I'm an electrical engineer so I'm really looking forward to the responses to this.

That's why there is a "?" and not a "." or "!". Because I wasnt sure and that's what I thought to understand it as.
No need to be a dick though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Meanwhile, people have bought up the remaining optical disk drives, making them more expensive.

I've had my Noctua CPU fan for more than 15 years, never made a squeak or a noise. And I still get free upgrade kits from them to accommodate for new CPU platforms. Just have to send them a request. So I'd pay the price anytime.

Don't be sorry because you're not wrong and dude was just being a dick for no reason. Also a PWM signal is not a complex concept and it certainly doesn't require any degree at all to understand.

Simply put: you have an additional pin carrying the PWM signal, which is a simple squarewave. How much of that wave is high during a period is called the duty cycle and regulates the fan speed. Eg. if for 75% of the period the signal is high, then the duty cycle is 75%.

So, while the phrase "they spin what they are ordered to do by the PWM" is not particularly well worded, it's also technically not wrong.

I really wish people would share their knowledge, instead of gatekeeping it to feel superior.

...yet

I can still buy AT era motherboard studs for the same price?

Is there a reason asides from branding that Noctua makes all of there gear in prune binge shit peuce? I'm not an RGB gamer boy, but I would love it if they had some options in black or charcoal.

They do. Chromax exists.

The username was a bit of a giveaway.

Their claim about Noctua is also not correct, or at least not generalisable to all coolers. I upgraded my CPU recently to a Ryzen 9 5950X, so needed to upgrade my cooler. The NH-D15 came out as one of the best options (that were also available second hand) when looking at cooling performance per dB. That ratio is what matters.

I ended up spending about $45. It ended up not having all fan clips with it, but Noctua sent those to me for free.

TIL! Thanks for the heads up.

Ty :)

So the fan decides the max RPM possible and the fan controller (probably the Motherboard) decides the percentage of the available RPM with the duty cycle?

Peripherals are dirt cheap now. I remember when I built my first pc and watercooling would cost as much as the CPU and the case as much as the psu (and that was just a basic metal box, before windows became standard)

This, but seriously. Many PC components companies are overstocking and already have decrease their production to match demand.

This is the moment to buy those tiny/cool/silent upgrades.

If you're going to infer someone is stupid because you disagree with them, at least have the decency to explain how they're wrong.

BTW, the username is 100% bait: a certain fraction of social media users tend to make that "hurr hurr, username sure checks out" comment, letting me know the person making said comment likely isn't worth taking seriously.

So sorry! I mistakenly assumed you were amongst the "downvoting for sharing information they don't like" crowd that hit my original comment, so I read your comment as being passive aggressive. My response wasn't any better than what I assumed BUT mine was entirely intentionally, so I was absolutely the one in the wrong. I apologize.

I assumed your response meant "PWM will spin up the fan to equal RPMs regardless of model", which is actually pretty similar to what some Nortua diehards have claimed on Reddit when I've criticized Noctua fans in the past.

The other commenter has the right of how PWM works. Since it only modulates the frequency and therefore duration of on/off cycles, if one fan spins at a max of 6000 RPM while a Noctua equivalent tops out at 4500, PWM will only be able to modulate to speeds below that maximum.

Been using my same hyper 212 from my old i5-750, now it's on my i5-8600k. Love it, makes a significant difference.

I wasn't being a dick for no reason - I was being a dick because I thought THEY were being a passive aggressive dick, much like how you assumed I was "gatekeeping knowledge to feel superior". Bad assumptions all around here.

I assumed they were suggesting PWM will cause an inherently slower spinning fan to spin at any RPM regardless of model, which is actually a response some Noctua diehards have used in the past when I point out what Noctua is omitting when they advertise their fans as being so much quieter.

Regardless, I apologized for my bad assumption and subsequent response. It was out of line, especially given the actual meaning and intent of the comment.

Too bad Doom:TDA is locked behind having specific graphics hardware :(

these are the components that people cheap out on but give the most bang for the buck when you increase quality.

Free in that you paid a $120 premium to get a $10 part every 5 years with an upgrade.

They make good stuff, but it just isn't worth the markup. If actually you need the level of performance to justify spending that kind of money, just go with liquid cooling.

Pretty much. In a typical motherboard, the fan controller is linked to temperature monitoring and the duty cycle is changed in correlation with another variable, generally CPU temperature. The PWM control method actually doesn't require the monitoring of fan speed at all, but it's included for informational and safety purposes.

PC hardware got more expensive (as well as everything else) only in terms of fiat notes. If you measure it in hard assets like monero, ₿ or gold it keeps getting cheaper.

It was a joke I assumed you'd be okay with given your username, which signalled an appreciation of self deprecating humor :)

To be frank, I didn't think you were friendly enough in previous comment that I wanted to engage with you, but I had something useful to say. So I referred to your username as hook for the other discussion. I think the person I responded to did a good job explaining why the PWM comment was technically correct, so I had nothing to add to that.

But other than the comment you made I thought could have been friendlier, I have nothing against you. I'm not making any inferences about you as a person based on one comment. I dont actually you're stupid, you're still the stranger on the internet you were before.

You were downvoted because you're wrong, or at best technically accurate but inaccurate about the results.

Your fan speed is set by your fan controller.

And while it's true that different fans can be set up to spin at different speeds with the same input voltage or PWM signal, if the fan is less effective at cooling at that rate, the controller will end up higher on the fan curve and speed it up to compensate.

The only things that determine your fan's ultimate speed are a) how high the controller allows it to go, b) how much heat the hardware is generating, and c) how efficiently the combination of coolers and fans dissipate that heat into the air (which also depends on the room's conditions).

Now we're just talking about fans, so we can ignore item b entirely as well as the cooler and room conditions. And it then comes down to, can the fan keep up with the heat being generated at the current point in the fan's curve? If not, heat increases and the controller speeds up the fan. Then, when it hits whatever the cap is, if it still can't keep up, the hardware either overheats or throttles.

If it can keep up, then it stays where it is on the curve. If it can dissipate more heat than is being produced, it goes down on the curve and the fan slows down as the temperature lowers.

All this to say, if you have fan A that needs to be at 2000 rpm to keep up with the heat being generated by the hardware at say 65°C and someone says they have a better fan, B, that is just set to spin slower at the same signal from the controller, all that will happen is it will fail to keep up with the heat generated at 65, then the heat will rise until it's spinning at 2000 rpm anyways or the curve hits the cap and the system throttles to reduce the heat generated.

So we couldn't really eliminate that item b above and it could actually be relevant, though if that were the case, I'd assume people would just curse noctura because their fans suck and their systems run hotter or slower. But they have a good reputation where the main complaint I see is about their price, not their performance.

Personally, I use be quiet! fans rather than noctura, but it's a similar principle. They make quieter fans by tweaking or redesigning blades shape and angle, bearings, and the motor. Blades make them more effective at slower speeds, and all three can make them quieter at the same speeds.

Isnt that a Noctua cooler pictured?

That's the thing. They were pricey because they were top notch, innovative and european (as in, not asian made). Easy to 'win' with copying and made in china.

The "premium" you are talking about were 60€ in 2015.
It survived 3 builds until now, pretty good deal.
If you need pretty LEDs and fancy colours you can always choose a competitor.

60 euro premium and how much money has it saved you versus buying something cheaper and an adapter at each upgrade?

I disagree about why I got downvoted, but I don't care enough to argue the point.

You're correct about the temperature/duty cycle curve, but not "the only things that determine maximum fan speed" and what that means in relation to that curve. I'm loath to toot my own horn, but the concepts you're describing and are claiming I don't understand are what I work in professionally. I mentioned earlier I'm an EE - an electrical engineer.

Maximum fan speed is inherent to the fan itself and, put very simplistically, in a brushless DC motor is determined by the torque generated. As the motor spins faster, the total resistance (again simplistically, back EMF and net friction) increases, and once it equals the motor's torque output, the motor has reached its maximum speed. Fans operating at a given voltage will have different maximum speeds based on blade size and geometry and motor design.

PWM fan controllers simply correlate a temperature with a duty cycle percentage, but cannot cause a fan to spin faster than its maximum speed. If one fan is rated for 3500 RPM and another 6000 RPM, they will spin at their respective rating at 100% duty cycle. No more.

Noctua's fans in general tend to have engineering superior to many lower priced alternatives, somewhat reducing the sound generated at a given speed, but the low-noise line of fans for which they are often noted achieves that low noise primarily through reduced speed, and thus reduced output. Similarly, the low noise adapter included with some fans is simply an in-line resistor, also reducing speed for reduced sound.

My main point though is that it isn't the electronics or the fan's max speed that are the critical parts, it's whether the fan is able to dissipate the heat being generated with the total sum of how everything is set up. If it can't, then temperature creeps up until that max speed is hit (thus it can't dissipate anymore and throttles, hits equilibrium at a higher temperature (because bigger temperature differential means more heat transfer even at the same fan speed, so it's possible it won't just run away when the max speed is hit), or melts/overheats to failure) or until the fan speeds up and is able to find an equilibrium or reduce the temperature.

Thus whatever tricks they use need to result in fans that are still good enough to replace whatever fan they are replacing or they will cause performance issues.

Though if someone is just adding case fans, then as long as it doesn't disrupt the airflow, it will help even if it isn't very good, and you can use multiple quiet fans to replace a single loud one and see an overall improvement even if the individual fans aren't nearly as good as the single one they replace. So based on that, I'll back down from my previous "their reputation speaks for itself" because the reality is that they can be overpriced underperforming garbage but still get a good reputation because they aren't just being evaluated via a/b testing and I was naive to oversimplify it like that.

The top of the market sucks but I've been building am4 systems for people for about 400$. 3700x or 5500 is good enough for most people and as long as they don't break their motherboard they can drop in an upgrade.

My fastest pc right now is probably my 5700x3d and 4070 super. So I feel like I have 2 years to find an upgrade.

Noctua sent me new mounts for my 11 year old CPU cooler for free so I could put it in my upgraded desktop.

Real MVPs there.

It cost me nothing because I did not need to buy a new one each time.

So what should a cooler in this category should have Costed in 2015 for you?

You keep rambling about premium but do not define what that means for you.

When I built a PC in 2015, I just used the cooler that came bundled with the processor and it worked just fine.

As intended. But a bigger cooler really hits the spot. Try pick up a used one from eBay. Like people here mentioned, other brands have cought up.

The side effect in 2015 was, that I never needed a bigger case for new graphics cards because the fan was already so big.