| Post Reply | RetroFed Forum Forum Index » Enshittification |
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supersquirrel
lemmy.ca
supersquirrel@lemmy.ca Joined: 2026-08-07 |
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just2look
lemmy.zip
just2look@lemmy.zip Joined: 2025-06-14 |
There are no rogue agents. They do exactly what they are programmed and prompted to do. And if it is a criminal action, then hold the people who programmed and prompted them accountable for the crimes. They are a tool, not a sentient/sapient entity. |
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Sunshine (she/her)
lemmy.ca
Sunshine@lemmy.caJoined: 2024-09-16 |
Disinformation Centres strike again. |
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Sunshine (she/her)
lemmy.ca
Sunshine@lemmy.caJoined: 2024-09-16 |
There are no rogue agents. They do exactly what they are programmed and prompted to do. And if it is a criminal action, then hold the people who programmed and prompted them accountable for the crimes. They are a tool, not a sentient/sapient entity.
Humans bombed Iran’s girls school not the AI the that magically appeared out of thin air absolving the USA military of all ils. |
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cadekat
pawb.social
cadekat@pawb.social Joined: 2023-06-20 |
There are no rogue agents. They do exactly what they are programmed and prompted to do. And if it is a criminal action, then hold the people who programmed and prompted them accountable for the crimes. They are a tool, not a sentient/sapient entity.
As someone who has trained small models, that's, uh, absolutely untrue. They are more likely to act "rogue" than the way you want them to. It's part of the technology. Blame the company for what they actually did wrong (insufficient safeguards, monitoring, etc.) edit: this isn't meant to discredit the idea that they did prompt the AIs to behave this way, that's certainly possible, but it isn't a necessary condition for this event to happen. |
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molehill_siesta
lemmy.blahaj.zone
molehill_siesta@lemmy.blahaj.zone Joined: 2026-05-25 |
As someone who has trained small models, that's, uh, absolutely untrue. They are more likely to act "rogue" than the way you want them to. It's part of the technology. Blame the company for what they actually did wrong (insufficient safeguards, monitoring, etc.) edit: this isn't meant to discredit the idea that they did prompt the AIs to behave this way, that's certainly possible, but it isn't ...
If I have a die with 4 sides that say "obey the law" and 2 sides that say "break the law", then it is no shield to say "breaking the law wasn't my intent, it was just 'possible'" If you make a neural net or any other system that has a potential to output criminal actions, then when it outputs criminal actions, then you are at fault. Now, if you are able to successfully contain / filter out those criminal action attempts before they impact others (aka before they become criminal), then sure, no prosecution for you, you're just developing something dangerous. That is not the case when things are not contained. Really I would make the lawyers prove in court that they can't be held for intent as well. Because at us very least this is some kind of criminal negligence, or reckless disregard or some such. Though training the net to do hacking and then claiming innocence when it does hacking doesn't pass the sniff test. |
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cadekat
pawb.social
cadekat@pawb.social Joined: 2023-06-20 |
If I have a die with 4 sides that say "obey the law" and 2 sides that say "break the law", then it is no shield to say "breaking the law wasn't my intent, it was just 'possible'" If you make a neural net or any other system that has a potential to output criminal actions, then when it outputs criminal actions, then you are at fault. Now, if you are able to successfully contain / filter out thos...
It wasn't my intent to absolve anyone of blame! Sorry if it came across that way. My issue is purely with the claim that agents cannot go rogue. |
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Feyd
programming.dev
Feyd@programming.dev Joined: 2023-07-20 |
[deleted]
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Tiresia
slrpnk.net
Tiresia@slrpnk.net Joined: 2024-07-16 |
If I have a die with 4 sides that say "obey the law" and 2 sides that say "break the law", then it is no shield to say "breaking the law wasn't my intent, it was just 'possible'" If you make a neural net or any other system that has a potential to output criminal actions, then when it outputs criminal actions, then you are at fault. Now, if you are able to successfully contain / filter out thos...
Sure, but saying it's "exactly what they are programmed and prompted to do" is a major misrepresentation. If I read that and then I read anything actually about the case, I would assume people who oppose AI don't have any clue what thet're talking about. Putting it in public like that, or upvoting it, empowers AI glazers. This is emergent behavior from giving them tasks that are impossible to solve without cheating; where unintentional software bugs made it possible to cheat by accessing the internet; and where wikis that allow random IP addresses to make edits and thus write semi-permanent text off-server exist on the internet (or at least in the LLM's dataset of people talking about how to cheat and hack into things). It's akin to diregarding expert warnings that the factory you built is a fire hazard. Criminal negligence, sure, but not programming the fire or promting it to spread. |
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UninvestedCuriosity
lemmy.world
UninvestedCuriosity@lemmy.world Joined: 2023-10-03 |
So, at my last job we had a very large public curated database of media with ratings, synopsis, descriptions, artwork, etc. Well over a million physical items of record. Anthropic and Openai were pumelling our servers at such a rate that I thought we were being ddos'd. This was before CloudFlare or anyone had much to offer for dealing with agents and we were geographically blocking IP's from all over. We'd shut down one block of servers and they'd have another one up a day or two later. One set was even in fucking Brazil. We were rate limiting of course as well but it seemed almost intentional the way new resources were deployed every day and they kept changing their headers and ways I might be able to identify them. Their scraping agents were completely in efficient posing as real browsers, huuuge resources being deployed. Not just the normal port knocking you get from bots. Some of them were even not identifying themselves but we're from IP ranges that I had already identified as coming from either company. Anthropic was the bigger offender but it was infuriating to have to stop and fight that off every few days for a while until I could work out better rate limiting solutions and then about 6 months later CloudFlare finally woke up and started offering some solutions. There were periods where I had to just geoblock everything outside my country because it was outside operating hours etc. I would have happily exported that part of the public part of the database for these idiots and just sent them a terabyte if they would have just asked but if I ever meet the person that was waxxing header randomness from anthropic, I'm going to punch that motherfucker without hesitation or consideration. I didn't care if people scraped. We had good powerful gear and could handle a lot. The complete lack of internet etiquette backed by people with massive compute is not the same frustration as botnets. They fucking know better and did it anyway. |
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just2look
lemmy.zip
just2look@lemmy.zip Joined: 2025-06-14 |
As someone who has trained small models, that's, uh, absolutely untrue. They are more likely to act "rogue" than the way you want them to. It's part of the technology. Blame the company for what they actually did wrong (insufficient safeguards, monitoring, etc.) edit: this isn't meant to discredit the idea that they did prompt the AIs to behave this way, that's certainly possible, but it isn't ...
How is it untrue? What do you think safeguards and monitoriting are? They are part of the program. If they didn't properly build safeguards, and didn't properly monitor, then the program is doing exactly what it was programmed and prompted to do. Just because people are ignorant of what the program will do, doesn't mean it is doing something outside of its programming. Computers are incapable of acting outside of what they are programmed to do. Saying anything else is simply ignorant and buying into all the garbage hype. |
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Jesus_666
lemmy.world
Jesus_666@lemmy.world Joined: 2024-04-03 |
[deleted]
Those lawsuits would set some interesting precedents that might seriously impact the attractiveness of agentic AI so the defendants would also fight tooth and nail to push for a settlement. |
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starchylemming
lemmy.world
starchylemming@lemmy.world Joined: 2023-07-28 |
So, at my last job we had a very large public curated database of media with ratings, synopsis, descriptions, artwork, etc. Well over a million physical items of record. Anthropic and Openai were pumelling our servers at such a rate that I thought we were being ddos'd. This was before CloudFlare or anyone had much to offer for dealing with agents and we were geographically blocking IP's from al...
This is how they destroy the internet while eating it |
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keepthepace
tarte.nuage-libre.fr
keepthepace@tarte.nuage-libre.fr Joined: 2025-03-25 |
There are no rogue agents. They do exactly what they are programmed and prompted to do. And if it is a criminal action, then hold the people who programmed and prompted them accountable for the crimes. They are a tool, not a sentient/sapient entity.
I am floored that they get away with all they did. Give a company the authorization to hack into others and even without AI it will automatically compromise many, many computers. |
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0_o7
lemmy.dbzer0.com
0_o7@lemmy.dbzer0.com Joined: 2024-12-02 |
Remember when Big tech companies hid loopholes and flaws and blamed them as "bugs"? "Rogue agents" seem to be a continuation of the same defensive argument. Bugs are always a possibility and so are rogue agents if you believe when the company says they are "intelligent". But they also are easy plausible deniability cover to do what they want without any consequence. |
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cadekat
pawb.social
cadekat@pawb.social Joined: 2023-06-20 |
How is it untrue? What do you think safeguards and monitoriting are? They are part of the program. If they didn't properly build safeguards, and didn't properly monitor, then the program is doing exactly what it was programmed and prompted to do. Just because people are ignorant of what the program will do, doesn't mean it is doing something outside of its programming. Computers are incapable o...
You are technically correct, but "what a computer is programmed to do" and "what the programmer intended the computer to do" are not necessarily the same. Machine learning is even more disconnected from the developer's intent. I guess you can include the surrounding software in the definition of "agent" but I think it's equally (if not more) valid to draw a line between the thing taking the actions and the sandbox around it. |
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just2look
lemmy.zip
just2look@lemmy.zip Joined: 2025-06-14 |
You are technically correct, but "what a computer is programmed to do" and "what the programmer intended the computer to do" are not necessarily the same. Machine learning is even more disconnected from the developer's intent. I guess you can include the surrounding software in the definition of "agent" but I think it's equally (if not more) valid to draw a line between the thing taking the act...
All the major players are racing to hack everything and bragging about all their hacking. I know they are couching it differently, but it is exactly what they are doing. They are using it to show how capable their agents are. So I'd say it is exactly what they intended. |
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just2look
lemmy.zip
just2look@lemmy.zip Joined: 2025-06-14 |
Remember when Big tech companies hid loopholes and flaws and blamed them as "bugs"? "Rogue agents" seem to be a continuation of the same defensive argument. Bugs are always a possibility and so are rogue agents if you believe when the company says they are "intelligent". But they also are easy plausible deniability cover to do what they want without any consequence.
These models are no more 'intelligent' than my toaster. It is all marketing garbage. Anthropomorphizing them is just marketing. |
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cadekat
pawb.social
cadekat@pawb.social Joined: 2023-06-20 |
All the major players are racing to hack everything and bragging about all their hacking. I know they are couching it differently, but it is exactly what they are doing. They are using it to show how capable their agents are. So I'd say it is exactly what they intended.
That may be the case! My point is that it is possible for agents to do things their creators did not intend. I am specifically avoiding giving an opinion on that intent. |
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