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CameronDev
programming.dev
CameronDev@programming.dev Joined: 2023-06-18 |
A human doing a clean room reimplementation is not supposed to have seen the original source code for something they are reimplementing. If that source code is in the training data for the LLM, that seems like a similar situation.
Except that they are separated. The clean side (model + implementors) doesnt have the original source code. The dirty side is the training room, which does have original source. The model that you download from huggingface is basically the notebook passed between the two rooms, and as far as im aware, the model doesnt have the actual training data in it, just enough statistics to "hallucinate" something close. |
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3abas
lemmy.world
3abas@lemmy.world Joined: 2025-07-02 |
Arguing such thing is "open source" is misleading as 1/ contributors can hardly call themselves "authors" of this code 2/ nobody can demonstrate that the plagiarizing engine they used did not plagiarize proprietary source code or source code published under an incompatible license. as in "you cannot claim a room is clean if you have never been in it, haven't built it, and cannot even know what's in it"
Adobe would have to prove the model that generated this was trained on its stolen code. And Adobe's code contains zero Rust while the Craft suite is 100% rust, so it's certainly not simply regurgitating Adobe's code. If you learn from others by studying their code, is the organic artisanal code you create also necessarily stolen? Let Adobe prove AI is trained on their codebase. Fuck Adobe, and fuck the copywrite system. |
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pineapple
lemmy.ml
pineapple@lemmy.ml Joined: 2024-11-06 |
well fortunately for them, moth supposes, that they don't need amazing software. they just need enough to beat Gimp, which has sucked since moth was a larva. it's a rather low bar to beat.
I think gimp is great software, maybe you just haven't given it enough of a shot to learn it. |
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ZkhqrD5o
lemmy.world
ZkhqrD5o@lemmy.world Joined: 2024-02-17 |
To be honest, I think these things will be abandoned very quickly. Therefore I don't think that there will be any competition to the "flagship" FOSS projects anytime soon. However, in the proprietary world, it's money above all else, and I think that we're going to see the quality of proprietary software degrade very quickly. Because why pay engineers to do work if you can have a text generator that does it cheaper and gets there 80% of the way, and then just release it. |
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Lettuce eat lettuce
Moderator
Lettuceeatlettuce@lemmy.mlJoined: 2023-07-12 |
They aren't saying that opening and saving their own files corrupts. They are saying their psd saving is 99% the same as adobe's.
I know they are talking about PSDs, they listed it in their test suite. I read it as the test working for all but a few tools, but I guess they could just be talking about coverage. Either way, it still does and will suffer from all the same issues I listed in my comment. |
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Lettuce eat lettuce
Moderator
Lettuceeatlettuce@lemmy.mlJoined: 2023-07-12 |
Most of these are very modular, so should be very easy to maintain. I guess we'll just have to see. Software that was forever, “almost working properly.” That describes how I feel about MS Word quite well.
If I had a dollar for every time I've encountered things in IT that "should be easy to XYZ..." That actually were a nightmare to deal with, I'd damn near be retired already. And you're 100% correct about Microsoft products. I'll give you 1 guess what company was bragging loudly earlier this year about how much AI-generated code their software engineers are using. |
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ShinkanTrain
lemmy.ml
ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml Joined: 2024-06-13 |
My concerns for LLMs, despite numerous, do not outweight my hatred for Adobe. |
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ZephyrXero
lemmy.world
ZephyrXero@lemmy.world Joined: 2023-06-14 |
I'll just keep using GIMP, thanks |
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SpatchyIsOnline
lemmy.world
SpatchyIsOnline@lemmy.world Joined: 2024-08-07 |
I don't know how anything developed by an LLM can be considered a cleanroom reimplementation. The AI has almost certainly seen the source code of the project it's reimplementing, even of it's proprietary because the developers of said software are likely using the AI too |
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LaLuzDelSol
lemmy.world
LaLuzDelSol@lemmy.world Joined: 2023-07-17 |
Let's grab our popcorn and watch Adobe fight AI companies on this. Because if this isn't legal, then what does that say for everything else generated by AI?
Yeah we could be a court ruling away from a lot of AI usage being considered illegal. The burden of proof rests on Adobe though. They will have to show examples of their source code being extremely similar I think. |
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muusemuuse
sh.itjust.works
muusemuuse@sh.itjust.worksJoined: 2025-06-25 |
I don't know how anything developed by an LLM can be considered a cleanroom reimplementation. The AI has almost certainly seen the source code of the project it's reimplementing, even of it's proprietary because the developers of said software are likely using the AI too
That sounds like a problem for layers of ai companies, not users. |
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lengau
midwest.social
lengau@midwest.social Joined: 2024-01-29 |
I don't know how anything developed by an LLM can be considered a cleanroom reimplementation. The AI has almost certainly seen the source code of the project it's reimplementing, even of it's proprietary because the developers of said software are likely using the AI too
I do not believe that they are doing a proper clean room implementation, but I do think it's possible to do with an LLM. Let's say for the sake of argument that the model used on the clean room side is a fully self-hosted version of Nemotron. One of the characteristics of Nemotron is that it's not just an open weight model, but from my understanding the training set is open, too. So, at least in theory, Nemotron can be proven to be free of any of Adobe's intellectual property. |
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