Panel #3 reminds me of an important historical fact.

Susan B. Anthony died in 1906, and the 19th Amendment was ratified in 1920.

The most well-known suffragette, who worked for equality and civil rights her entire life, did not live to see her life's work realized.

Progress can be slow, but don't let that discourage you. We work to better the world for future generations, not just for ourselves.

My grandpa died from cancer, and now you want to cure cancer?! That’s not fair to everyone who’s died from it!

Wasn't she a raging racist?

The problem isn't that progress comes too slowly, it's that the slowness is intentional and manufactured.

I mean the student loans could be reimbursed for those who closed 'em in, say, last 20 years? This way the flattop man don't need to be angry anymore!

I don't think that it is. The progress of society is slow because people themselves are slow to change.

But also, who gives a fuck? Cancel student loans and watch the economy suddenly explode when millions of people have disposable income for the first time ever. Set up assistance programs for anyone who paid off their loan and is still struggling financially, otherwise, fuck off with that entitlement.

I dropped out of college and had zero loans, my wife had crushing debt. After reconfiguring our budget, we were able to save up enough to pay off her loans just before the big COVID unfreeze. While our savings took a hit, we quickly were able to save up most of that money because we didn't have to deal with soul-crushing loans. Everything's expensive and uncertain now, but up until nearly a year ago, we were doing fine.

My point is, if you were able to pay off your loans and continue doing well for yourself, shut the fuck up. This conversation isn't about you. It's about the people who have to choose between rent and groceries. Once those people can afford to survive, you'll probably get a raise at work because people won't be so desperate that they'll accept any wage, regardless of how much it lowers the bar.

No, she was raised in an egalitarian Quaker family who was very committed to social reform and she was working towards the abolition of slavery as young as her teens.

All the analogies are bad. You should be able to fund the studies of future generations without retroactively changing rules that applied to past generations. The correct analogy would be: why do you pay the guy who didn’t work last weekend retroactively for those days they didn’t work, if I was actually working: now we both made the same money and I worked 2 extra days for it which is unfair.

Disclaimer: my education was at no cost to me and I never had student debt, I have no skin in the game. The conversation should be about how we help tomorrow’s students, not about giving money to an arbitrary set of yesterday students.

If you can only afford to cancel the current once, sure do that. Otherwise, why not get some societal goodwill from those who already payed it off?

Cap the program by income\assets, help those who need it.

Sure. I feel like we're making the same argument, mine was just more emotionally charged and confusing.

Except that Thrug will also stop eating raw guts and the guy who paid off his loans will benefit little from debt cancellation. Same with women voting. Not great examples.

Yeah, but she didn’t want black men to vote if white women couldn’t.

The disagreement led Anthony and Stanton to form the National Woman Suffrage Association, which focused exclusively on a federal amendment for women's right to vote. In their push for the vote, they sometimes pandered to white Southerners by arguing that enfranchising white women would help outweigh the Black male vote. This strategy alienated many Black suffragists, such as Frances Ellen Watkins Harper, who felt their specific struggles were being ignored.

Hey, you know what I benefit from? A society full of educated people that can afford to pursue their passions.

Yes, there are indirect benefits (that's why I said little, not nothing. how much depends on your age among other things). Thrug, on the other hand, will stop eating raw guts same as everyone else. Fire is a direct benefits to him. The older woman will also be able to vote - direct benefit. All of then can live in a better society thanks to those changes but some will also benefit directly, others will not.

You have a funny definition of "indirect". Any improvements to the place and people I interact with directly benefits my life. If my barista was happier because their cafe unionized it would directly benefit me because I like that.

You're right, maybe indirect is not the best word. But you do see the difference between someone getting their debt cancelled and someone just hoping that this will one day lead to a better society he can enjoy? And the difference between this situations and a situation where everyone stops eating raw guts?

She worked for suffrage for both groups. Reconstruction was going on and Black suffrage was a very new thing. She didn't want women to be left behind in civil rights, can't say I blame her.

This comic is about conservatism.

So you’re saying it’s ok to oppose something that doesn’t have any effect on you, even if it benefits someone else?

Sure, college debt cancellation may not be a big boon for those who have no college debt, but it doesn’t harm them either. Seems kind of cruel to deny someone else an advantage, just because it doesn’t grant you an advantage too.

I think you want there to be a difference.

I can at least afford to pay off my college debt.

If they forgave everyone's debt but mine, I would still be cool with that.

I just don't want the cost of college to keep increasing. It's bullshit how they capitalized on the student loans to begin with and I hold them significantly responsible for the shape of acadamia, in America today.

Man. I wish this wasn't so fucking accurate.

So you’re saying it’s ok to oppose something that doesn’t have any effect on you, even if it benefits someone else?

And sure enough, a lemming has to find a meaning in a comment that's simply not there. Never fails... I will have to start adding some disclaimers like: Attention! This comment is mean to say only what it actually says. No hidden meaning here!

I never said I oppose debt cancellation (because I don't). I said that the analogies used in the comic are not great.

There is a difference, you just don't want to see it because you think I'm arguing against debt cancellation (I'm not) and have to disagree with me at all cost.

Half of the country doesn't go to college, many because they can't afford to, and forgiving this batch of student loan debt doesn't fix the problem or hand down consequences to the universities that see students as a cash grab rather than the next generation to educate. It's just a terrible short sighted solution that only helps a fraction of people and angers an even larger fraction of people. A more pragmatic short term solution is to let the recipients be able to declare bankruptcy and be done with it, but that's going to be even less popular because then everyone involved deals with their share of the consequences. Everyone would rather get "free" money.

Yikes. I guess it was more of a selfish pursuit of power and colonial American infighting than a wholesome stand for righteousness and equality. And John Brown spun in his grave once more.

the main problem is the lack of Job prospects for many majors, even the touted stem. industries are so gatekept.

it’s that the slowness is intentional and manufactured.

care to elaborate further?

And sometimes things even go backwards.

Except boomers didn't even pay for college, and if they did, it was WAY fucking cheaper than it is now

Drag feet, opponent will forget or be distracted, then just do whatever you want

I think so too. It is not only the task of replacing ideas, but in actuality it is the replacing of people that drives change. New ideas take root in young minds the most, and in old minds the least. Renewal of the population is also a renewal of the ideas that comes with them.

I think this is why everything goes downhill so fast currently: the boomers are still clinging to power, and i don't think humanity has ever had a generation that was this persistent at keeping the younger generations from replacing them in their positions. These older people do not have the mental or emotional learning capacity left to keep up with social development, and lash out in every possible direction.

They also didn't have to deal with the sea level rise or heat domes that they caused

damn

Just wait until you hear how obsessed with George Washington John Brown was

Somewhat related, but if you haven't seen Contrapoints' incredible video essay "Envy"... Set aside a few hours and watch it.

Those cavemen have excellent tailors, ahead of their time.

It's pretty self explanatory. Compare the US to any number of more progressive countries.

I applied for 246 scholarships including 35 essays and over 90 pages of them. I recieved one (1) scholarship for $500 and 134 rejection letters. Im still paying down $21k, which isnt as bad as most people, but still. I only qualified for Pell grants in my 4th year because i was old enough for them to take me seriously when i said my mother disowned me and i was at constant risk of being homeless and actively working a full time (40-48 hour) job while attending college.

I received $0 in help from anyone, but $20 from a friend for lunch one time. I don't think anyone should have to go through what i have. College should be free, mainly because most of the information was useless and the piece of paper is the only thing anyone cares about

I read a bit about it and, whilst uhhh "interesting " to say the least, it didn't change the fact that he lived and died for the enslaved man, whilst that lady was just a colonizer who didn't like her cut. 🤷‍♂️ But nobody's perfect, I know, I know.