The rest drown. It actually did occur to me in the shower just how heartless (but also accidentally accurate) that old conservative political adage really is.

The rest get trickled down on, obviously.

You're misinterpreting the metaphor. There isno separate class of boatless people in the metaphor, the boats are the people.

Rising

It also apparently originates from a christian saying, and spent a long time as a regional adage before JFK (or more accurately a speechwriter) turned it into an explicitly macroeconomic political message.

To the extent that it is used as a conservative political saying, that's a fairly recent development, and one that is intentionally calling back to a moderate democrat.

I’ve often heard it used as a way to define a class of students in the educational space, whereby any influx of new information is the tide. The only thing we can do as our own shipmaster is to help the others patch their vessels as we all learn and grow together through the unspoken knowledge of the seas.

As one born where shoreman are the lifeblood of a community, the old adage fortunately isn’t as tainted as you’ve made concern.

To the extent that it is used as a conservative political saying

OK, gonna have to stop you there. When and/or where has this ever been used by a conservative as a political saying? Whenever has any conservative, in the last 30 years (or more), had such dare to venture into such perilous foresight? I eagerly await the citations, but I think you’d be wasting your time to even look for them, because conservatives do not excitedly foresee such things.

Swype-o, thanks.

OP said that. I was simply saying that IF they are saying that, it's only as a reference to something said earlier.

You’re misinterpreting the metaphor.

No, OP is just correctly understanding the part of the metaphor that the people with boats don't want you to look at.

There isno separate class of boatless people in the metaphor,

That the person making the statement care about

the boats are the people.

The boats are owned by the very wealthy

For idiots like me a good example of this analogy is LeBron James. When he is on your team you all objectively get better.

LeBron is the rising tide. His teammates are the boats.

What about floatation vests? Or just being kinda fat and relaxing?

A rising tide drowns those stuck in the mire.

No, OP did not say that.

Why would you tell such an obvious lie that is so easy to see is a lie?

Not sure where your misunderstanding is coming from, but the post, if you read any beyond the title, says:

that old conservative political adage

Where is my lie?

That’s not how the metaphor works.

You could start by quoting where OP said what you claim they did

old conservative political adage

Is that a conservative adage? It definitely sounds more like the opposite of "trickle down economics".

In practice it is. People use it as a synonym for trickle down economics. As in, the billionaire's yacht rising with the tide will somehow trickle down to the rest of us.

The boats aren't actually boats. Metaphors are confusing for some.

A rising tide lifts all boats

Except the ones already swamped. They're just extra-fucked now.

Yeah this shower thought doesn’t make any sense.

I guess I'll take the L for not being more clear initially.

Does this make up for my mistake?

Oh my god. This thread is infuriating. The people are the fucking boats the wealthy just own the big ones and the tide is not going to drown everyone in the fucking town that might exist somewhere.

Whether or not you have a boat is also a metaphor.

Its actually a good phrase and one of the reasons rich people with brains actually want more wealth taxation. the rising tide is a healthy economy and when all boats are not being lifted then its not a rising tide. Its a bubble.

The metaphor doesn't use the word people at all. Boats refers to all people. Some are big boats (wealthy), some are dingies (poor). The tide raises all the boats equally.

If you want to twist the metaphor into some kind of class thing, fine, but you are deliberately misinterpreting it to push your agenda.

Its a metaphor, it isnt literal

A big tax break lifts all the yachts.

Any time you hear politicians or media talk about what is good for "the economy".

Remember "the economy" = rich people's yachts.

Yes, but on the bright side, you can take the wrapper off a bar of soap, make a bunch of tiny paper boats, and with one foot over the drain, control all their destinies at your whim. Who is their god now, giant who controls both the rain and the tide?

I personally first encountered it when a Republican Member of Congress worth nine figures said it, the intent being to argue in favor of trickle-down and against taxing the rich. "What helps us ultimately helps you!" You're right that it's surely not the original intent, as it was popularized by Kennedy. I could've framed it all better. I was responding to it as I'd personally heard it used.

Oh my god. This thread is infuriating.

People calling your bullshit would be pretty infuriating if you are used to just shouting people down I guess.

The people are the fucking boats the wealthy just own the big ones and the tide is not going to drown everyone in the fucking town that might exist somewhere.

This is the meaning people want you to think they mean.

Its not the meaning they actually mean.

The metaphor doesn’t use the word people at all. Boats refers to all people. Some are big boats (wealthy), some are dingies (poor). The tide raises all the boats equally.

Thats the surface level meaning sure, and thats what people want you to think they mean. But more or less every time I've heard the metaphor, its being used to pretend like me not being able to buy grovceries is the same as Elon Musk being a trillionaire, or Trump having gold plated toilets in his second vacation home or w/e (because we are both boats and a rising tide lifts all boats equally right?)

If you want to twist the metaphor into some kind of class thing, fine, but you are deliberately misinterpreting it to push your agenda.

Either the metaphor has already been twisted, or its simply being deliberately misused to push an agenda.

If its being deliberately misused, I guess you can argue that its not being "twisted" by technical definition, but to pretend like people who understand how its being used are deliberately misinterpreting it is a level of intellectual dishonesty thats pretty bad.

Either you know what you are doing, or you are so dumb you dont get it...I could try to give you the benefit of the doubt, but im not sure I know which is better tbh.

Its a metaphor, it isnt literal

You dont say?

idk. Not that it matters but I’ve only ever heard it used when talking about unions or social safety nets. Not people being drowned because they are prople and not boats or people in boats in a metaphor. It’s part of the package. And honestly I just made up some hypothetical non town in this horribly fucking stupid thought experiment.

If people are mis-using the metaphor to push an agenda, the solution isnt to further twist the metaphor, it's to push back tell them they are using it incorrectly, and that they are full of shit. Further misinterpreting the metaphor doesn't solve anything, and just allows further abuse of the metaphor.

If anything, this misinterpretation is exactly what a right wingers want, as it legitimises their use of the sound byte, without hold their word to the higher standard of the original metaphor.

We should be holding the metaphor to its strictest meaning, which is a good policy (rising tide) must benefit absolutely everyone (ALL ships).

I'd suggest that a good coach may be a better fit? Le Bron could join an U12 team and dominate for them, but they individually won't get better. If he leaves youre back to being the original U12 team.

But a good coach can improve each individual player, such that even after the coach leaves that are a better team still.

(I am not a basketball person, I know he was a player, but did he ever coach? If so, I retract my suggestion).

Not when 'having a boat' is 'having a pulse'.

Please, PLEASE, go understand the meaning of the phrase and comment when you do.

It's funny to read the different contexts in which people have encountered the quote. I first heard it from a hundred-millionaire Republican congressman, sorta chuckling to himself.

I think we're making the same point. In the real world, there very much are boatless people. Or non-boats, if you prefer. Those non-boats don't fare so well when the tide rises, fyi.

If people are mis-using the metaphor to push an agenda, the solution isnt to further twist the metaphor, it’s to push back tell them they are using it incorrectly, and that they are full of shit. Further misinterpreting the metaphor doesn’t solve anything, and just allows further abuse of the metaphor.

Im not twisting the metaphor, im calling out how it has been twisted.

If anything, this misinterpretation is exactly what a right wingers want, as it legitimises their use of the sound byte, without hold their word to the higher standard of the original metaphor.

Calling out what right wingers actually mean is never what right wingers want.

We should be holding the metaphor to its strictest meaning, which is a good policy (rising tide) must benefit absolutely everyone (ALL ships).

But thats not what it means, its strictest meaning is that a rising tide will lift all boats. That is, what is good for one person is equally good for all people. It doesnt say anything about good policy or what that must mean.

That's fine, but the boats = assets metaphor rings more true.

OP is pointing out there is another layer to the metaphor, which is quite pertinent

People arguing about if the rising tide phrase is a good or bad metaphor, well it's neither, it is vague enough that people can add whatever meaning they want to it.

Is it trickle-down or growing the pie? Who knows. But it is accurate to say that increasing GDP often leads to far worse outcomes for many workers. Massive health insurance costs boost GDP compared to universal health care, but the only people benefiting are the ultra wealthy in their fancy boats