Hi!

Soon I'll have my little nephew (13) in my company to check out software development for a week.

I'm working with large industry machines in real time Linux systems, so obviously I'd show him my test machine and if the customer agrees, I can show him some robots as well.
Also, he will get some crash course in computer basics.

He is an avid gamer - although not really good with computers.

I've gifted him a still nice laptop with Linux and Steam installed 1-2 years ago and he happily played Minecraft, but after some time he went back to his Switch 2.

Now he uses my Steam Deck - although that doesn't make that much of a difference...

I'd like to give him something fun as an exercise, that's is early rewarding.

Perfect would be, if he could code himself a little computer game, but that's completely out of my normal work stuff and I don't know what good options are available.

I guess starting with C++ and an Unreal engine or similar is more than an overkill.

Is there something, that is teaching the basics and gives rather quick rewards, which can produce a little something after 2-3 days?

Thank you all in advance!

Start with some python and side step to Godot?

Depending in the games some use LUA for modding so there is that path too.

Nice getup to get the basic mindset of programming for kids from the folks at MIT: https://scratch.mit.edu/

Somewhere around there's a locally installable version, I'd first found it via the little yunohost boxes.

You try to have him hack php websites. That seems to be very easy these days.

Check out TIC-80, might be a nice first step with a fast return/outcome

Yeah, scratch rings a bell

I think, I even installed it on his laptop as I set it up

Maybe that's a good starting point, thanks

Well, that would actually sound fun ;⁠-⁠)

Never heard of that
Thanks, will check it out

Python might be a good start, especially the trial and error runs with python are rather nice (no need to wait to compile a binary)
I'll need to look into some examples.

I like the idea, because it would actually be "real programming" and he should be old enough for that

I just don't want to frustrate his early steps too much.
Challenge is ok, but it should also bring some cheap wins as well

Just in case don't force anything, it could be he isn't interested. That curiosity should be on him, but sometimes you have to throw reeses on the floor to attract the ET.

My son is also into gaming and started with a juvinile course creating roblox games. Say what you want about Roblox (you are right) but it is a fantastic introduction to basic development in a game environment (remember, reeses) Two years later, now at 14, he started a python course and comes every Thursday excited to show me what he learnt.

My daughter on the other hand, will throw up just thinking about it xD

Honestly, I hate JavaScript, but I like JavaScript for this. You don't need a compiler and every computer has an interpreter for it. You could make a baseline thing and let him tinker. It comes with excellent developer tools with breakpoints, stepping, live editing. It's literally the least you have to do to make working interactive code.

Or another option is there was Robocode — a tank game where you program an autonomous robot to win a battle royale. Or there is Screeps — a StarCraft like game where you write code for different buildings and units and attempt to conquer the land.

I like the idea of code-as-gameplay. You get to play while being pushed to write more sophisticated code in order to do better.

Godot has a series of tutorials focused at kids looking to make their first game. should check that out. Godot is really easy to use.

Or you could go the route that many of us did way back in the day with geocities and set up a neocities account and learn the basics of HTML. they can set up their own little website for whatever their passion is. HTML, IMHO, is a great introduction to coding.

Depends on what he likes to play, but PICO-8 can be easy and fun for simple 2D stuff.

It's been a couple of years since I used it, but I recall making a platformer without too much trouble (tho, I was loosely following a tutorial)

Yeah, that's why I check the options

At least he came to me to ask, if he could make this school-work thingie at my place, because he thinks, it helps him to know more about computers.

But I'll need to start with the real basics about... everything

I understand you idea, but I'm afraid JS could teach some weird behaviour and also isn't easy to debug sometimes

At least I didn't like my time with it, because it has so many quirks.

But for a quick hack of something, maybe

Although I'm more inclined with python, when it comes to scripting languages

Maybe I'll also make a basic Linux course with a bit of command piping and simple bash scripts

Sending Godot recommendation

Ok, I'll need to look into that, thanks :⁠-⁠)

Thank you!

Somehow the name is familiar, but will need to check it out

I can recommend a game called "The Farmer was Replaced". It's a game about controlling a drone over a field via python scripts. You can use an in-game editor or you can use a third-party editor. Personally, I quite enjoy the game for playfully interacting with coding.

I second this. One of the advantages is it'll give him immediate visual feedback on the changes he makes

Uh, that sounds pretty cool

Thank you!

Edit: ok, had a first look, but I think, this is a winner
Thank you very much, that seems to be absolutely perfect!

Edit: others suggested programming games; those are also a great start that satisfies the two big requirements I mention.

If he plays any single player games, i'd probably start there. Modding. Especially if Minecraft or Roblox or Rimworld and the like.

I've taught a lot of people low level C and C++ over the years. Two of the most important things for beginners is getting feedback (what I call "blinky lights") and a reason to persist when learning gets hard. Creating a mod or cheats for a game can be great at fulfilling both of those requirements. You get to see a more tangible result of your work than a CLI print, and you have goals or a vision you're chasing. This is one reason why webdev is so accessible; the issue there is learning multiple languages and frameworks all at the same time which can be difficult if unguided.

My circles tend to all be low-level systems people, may be different in others; but all of the best programmers I know started with hacking on or making games or things for games. The desire to understand, to know more, to create; that pushed all of them. Getting to see the beating heart —the code describing the game mechanics you've used for hours— for the first time, can be a magical experience; so things with open APIs or unity games where the code is relatively accessible, are quite good.

I'm completely with you

But I'm absolutely no familiar with modding since a long time and have no clue, if there would be many tutorials for Linux or if everything runs

I think Roblox e.g. doesn't run on Linux?

Minecraft was just possible with a different launcher, iirc.

I don't want to spend a day just setting up his environment - well, I do, but mostly for getting his system right. Getting stuck in something, that just maybe doesn't work in his environment is frustrating.

I went to a technical school and programmed micro controllers to make a running light or blinking Christmas trees
But that's just far too much, when he is only here for a week.

Here we call that "schnuppern".
Pretty much means sniffing, you just get the first taste of something.
Means, it should be a good experience.

So... Although I do like the idea, especially with Minecraft modding, I'm not sure if it's easily applicable

So currently I tend to the recommendation with the game "the farmer was replaced"
Reminds me of a challenge we had in our first week at the university, to just give an insight on logic and algorithmic thinking.
And as long as it works with Proton, it should just work and seems to step up the complexity, but still "gamecifact-ed"

I'll try to have a look at Minecraft modding, because maybe that's still cool - although he quit playing half a year ago or so - but I'll need to verify, that it works.
And sadly the planned week is months earlier than expected - I'm having 3 weeks and at least one of them I'll be on a business trip.

So, I need to keep it simple (read: just works) - and entertaining

Prism launcher works well on Linux and helps with keeping multiple versions of the game & multiple modpacks to keep stuff organized.

As for modding itself, it would need an IDE and build system, along with a bit of prep and research...

I think the programming game is definitely the way to go at first.

Though, knowing that modding is a possibility they can persue on their own in the future would still be good. Or maybe remind them of that once they gain some proficiency with the basic concepts.

Another game to challenge his logical skills is Baba is You. It can really help put someone in a programming mindset.

If you're not familiar, you are this little sheep, Baba, and on each level there are blocks that correspond to game states. When you push them together you change the object properties of you or the environment to solve the level. For example there may be lava between you and the goal, and the blocks "lava" "is" "dead" tucked in a corner. Then you have a "not" block hanging out somewhere that you have to replace "is" with, to make the phrase "lava not dead" thereby turning off the lethality of the lava and letting you walk across it.

Another interesting place to start could be excel formulas. If he's into any tabletop rpgs challenge him to make a character sheet using formulas and named cells. This could be a good baby step into the fundamentals of programming learning if functions and how two objects interact in code.
Once he has that, add an initiative tracker using VBA.

That sounds very good and fun, but with 13, I think, he can stomach some real code as well

But maybe I'll combine those, because I also want to give him a rough introduction into logical gates

Maybe this is all already to much for him... We will see

Hmm... Currently it is stuck with Hades and Dead Cells

But he is also a big fan Pokémon and statistics

Maybe I'll give him that option - but personally, VBA is more business than software development

Would be cool, if something moves because of his code
Something like that

Thanks

I'll need to try this on my system first to have some steps ready

Will probably be a decision be available free time

But yeah, I also thing the finished game should falls more in the category of "just works" and with this limited time, this is probably be better option

Something like a raspberry pi with an activity book might be the thing, games are pretty advanced if you don’t know the basics of data handling and such.

Zachlikes aren't all about coding, but most of them will get you in the mindset. My favorite of them is Infinifactory but there are ones that are literally about writing code.

For a continued theme of, essentially, visually programming, Factorio and Satisfactory are great automation games and there are lots of smaller names like them.

Duskers is an interesting game. I've only played it a little bit, but in it you use a text terminal to navigate a drone through derelict spaceships.

Most of those are not directly about coding, but they're all adjacent and can help with reaching that headspace.

Yes. My thinking is that they may persue game modding on their own; if not in the near future, possibly some years down the line. You won't need to hold their hand that much if they discover a taste for it. That programming game definately wins in the short-term.

Yeah it's definitely business focused, but it's still scripting and you can see the visual impact of code. On_update functions on a worksheet also better mirrors what a software dev may be looking at.

I'm a biologist by trade, and learning VBA earned me multiple promotions at my last company, and a higher salary in my current job because I could come in and do what others would have to ask for a developer for.

Please not javascript or python. You have the right idea starting with C++ but C might be an even better place to start. 13 is old enough to comprehend the fundamentals. I learned programming on my own by starting at the top and working down, and I really regret it. Starting from the bottom and working up would have made me a much stronger programmer much sooner. I was 10 at the time and I wouldn't have been able to comprehend it all, but by 13 I would have been able, with a good teacher.

If you have a spare iPad the Swift Playgrounds app is free and fun.

Yeah, same

Started with turbo Pascal and then C, aber then C++

But I think, I had a different mindset than him.

It's just a week anyway.
Not sure what he could build, that's impressive for him, in that time

No Apple in this house, but thank you

I was working with VBA 2 summers during school as well, but that's nothing I'd have wished to start with, as it feels rather boring - imho

Sounds cool, thank you :⁠-⁠)

!learn_programming@programming.dev might help you too.

Honestly, I started with a specific goal that I somehow lucked out into it being a relatively simple script with iMacros of all things, and that was my introduction to the whole if/then control flow loop basics. (Yes, it recorded my stuff, but I had to go in and alter it and mess around a lot.) And I messed around with Scratch at the same time too. I really think this helped my actual Baby's First Program go down more easily in my first computer science class in college. (First language due to college was Racket, second was Java, third was C, I think this is fine.)

Making very simple video game mods might help too, with modding communities that have loads of documentation and "where do I start?" resources.

Maybe try getting him into basic game modding. Forces you to understand (at least a little bit) of how a game is built. And you have to go deeper and deeper to do cooler stuff.

Thanks for that!

Yeah, modding seems to be popular
Not sure, if I can make that happen in that short time

https://youtube.com/@engineeringfun

Boring you say? https://youtube.com/@engineeringfun