I wonder how much this is because of dumbing down, and how much it is because the market got larger. For example in the year 2002, The Sims was the highest selling game of all time, at ~6 million copies.

At the time, the perception of video games was still a hobby of sweaty nerds. Some years later the Wii launched, and it became really popular as a family console. It had some sports games, and I think it did a lot to get a foothold on a more general market. Games weren't just for sweaty nerds anymore. Although even then, a lot of people didn't play games.

Then at some point the marketing shifted. Games had broader stories, they tried for more mass-market appeal by selling cinematic experiences and whatnot (remember the awful QTE era of like the late-2000s early 2010s?)

At that point, I think gaming in general had broadened its appeal. A lot of people had consoles, PC hardware wasn't prohibitively expensive, etc.

I don't doubt that dumbing down games has had an effect, by making things simpler and flattening the learning curve you make it more accessible. That's a given. But I also think gaming becoming a more generally accessible and socially acceptable past time was a big contributor.

Once smart phones came along the mobile game market exploded, and I think that's still the biggest market segment, though it's moved on from its original simple puzzle games into bigger experiences, some that even translate decently well over to other mediums.

When they got sold to ea, this was the only possible outcome anyway. Not sure if they sold out or ea did some corporate bullshit to force them to it, but they should have stayed away from ea if they wanted to keep making games.

It's just a shame they never made a 4th dragon age

I don't get your point...

My point is that if Bioware did that when independent, they where to blame. But they weren't independent when they did that.

Your point is that Bungie did that, when independent... So? Are people not blaming Bungie for doing live-services? If they don't then they should! And if they do, then I don't see the inconsistency.

From my POV, no games of Bungie had any interest. I guess Halo found some appeal to some, but this whole Destiny stuff... Maybe it was successful because of the novelty at that time. But I had no interest it that...

EA kept pushing them to MMOs despite them being a single player RPG company. I definitely think they dropped the ball too, but had they been put on DA4 right after inquisition and kept it going to completion I don't think they'd've flopped like that

In these lists of great things to remember Bioware for, people keep not including MDK2. It told an amazing story of a mad scientist, his janitor and robot dog, repelling an alien invasion and saving Earth. Deserves to be mentioned alongside their othet awesome games.

This will happen to Rockstar before GTA6 comes out. They can't admit they don't have a game.

EA forced them to make a live service game that failed. Then they tried to make them make a live service Dragon Age game. They decided to change Veilguard back to single-player, but late enough in the development cycle that it impacted the final product.

Andromeda was a technical mess at launch, but the game itself was fine. It was the weakest in the series, but they tried new stuff with the spinoff and I appreciated the attempt.

The only game they made before that I truly disliked was Dragon Age II.

Okay, so without being what would Bioware have to do for you to blame Bioware for being shut down?

This is why I still consider it fair to blame EA for downstream effects like this. There's no guarantee as independent studios that they would function better, but they at least would have original staff from star games. Like PopCap, and Reddit refuses to acknowledge EA had any part of the garbage PopCap releases now.

I think you might be using the wrong word here. EA never pushed Bioware to make MMOs. Bioware made one MMO, SWTOR, and that was a financial success. As far as I know no other Bioware game had been an MMO after EA bought them. Where Bioware struggled was with making live-service multiplayer games and there's some argument that the unrealistic revenue expectations from EA forced Bioware to go down that route but in the end it was Bioware who suggested, back in 2012, that Anthem would be a live-service style game. How Veilguard ended up going multiplayer I'm not familiar with, but even there Bioware could go back to the single player experience, which still flopped.

EA didn't force them, Bioware pitched Anthem as a live-service style game from the get-go.

EA installed managers of the company who had backgrounds in Major League Gaming and EA's mobile gaming division. THEN they pitched a live service game. Most of the remaining members of the old guard left within months of Anthem's announcement.

Okay, so without being what would Bioware have to do for you to blame Bioware for being shut down?

Now I have trouble parsing your question.

Didn't I just answer that?

If BioWare would be independent, or maybe under a hypothetical 'good guy EA', and produced bad, bland, uninspired games, or dig themselves into one massive, feature-creep game, which eats all their money, but never releases, then I would blame them. So, if their management sucks. BioWare had enough money to find and hire good designers, writers, artists and programmers.
If they suddenly start creating niche games, without broad appeal, that would be fine to, in my book.

Trying desperately to appeal to a broad demographic, instead of playing to their strength, and their established fanbase, is what makes bland games.

Under EA what would Bioware have to do for you to say "yeah, Bioware is at fault here"? Because my argument is that EA gave Bioware all the chances to succeed and despite getting all the chances they still couldn't succeed.

And I never said EA is the good guy here. EA is not the good guy. But being an asshole company doesn't instantly mean you're to blame for everything.

There's no clear date on when the Anthem pitch happened but it happened before EA appointed Bromberg as the CEO, which was in 2013. Anthem didn't get officially announced until 2017. Unless you meant the nameless teaser they put out in 2014.

If you want to continue arguing this you going to have to personally name who that old guard was because I very much doubt they left within months in 2014.

Your argument isn't an argument, it is an assertion without any evidence, or even clear logical path.

Were you there in the talks between BioWare people and EA?
Do you know what EA ask directly or indirectly through implication BioWare to do?
How they should or shouldn't design their games?
What they should integrate or not and what to focus on?
What they should implement?
What kind of stories BioWare is allowed to write?
And the employees are treated?
If they where given creative freedom, a good compensation?

I don't know any of these things. My argument comes more down on the proverb "The fish stinks from its head." And the observation that BioWare produced good games before ME3 and DA2. Then something must have happened, notable game designers left the company, and they produced bland games.

It could have been some BioWare manager that messed stuff up. But why didn't EA replace them, or why were they even placed into that position in the first place? I don't know... All I know is that someone at the top could have prevented it, if they wanted to. And at the top was EA people.

What? Gta 6 is like next month

It's always the fucking suits.

Nothing easy about writing those words? Nobody can even read a mass effect game.

How about you answer the question

They do definitely only care about money, but there aren't shareholders anymore.

They sold out to a private equity firm, who in turn sold them to EA.

Sims 2 for life!

You've mistaken GTA6 for star citizen.

Upvoting this hurt me. I hate that you're so damn right.

Casey Hudson left in May 2014.

One person left, 2 years after personally pitching Anthem as a live-service game to EA. The same person returned a few years later and left again in 2020.

You think it's popular enough that anyone knows what MDK2 even means? People after lazy and won't search that to find out. Maybe you should stop being lazy too and just woke out the actually name instead of this game you seem to think it's unforgettable will remain entirely entirely forgotten

Just to push back on this, this is long overdue.

EA closing down studios they buy is the expected inevitable outcome

Anyone who lets EA acquire them deserves this. It's not even a secret, so fuck everyone at BioWare who sold their company to this. You can be sad, but you don't get to be surprised

Batteries Included – Purchased in 1987 and closed that same year.
Origin Systems – Purchased in 1992. Closed in 2004.
Bullfrog Productions – Purchased in 1995. Closed in 2001.
Maxis – Purchased in 1997. Closed in 2015. (Studio name still used by EA.)
Westwood Studios / EA Pacific – Purchased in 1998. Closed in 2003.
Kesmai – Purchased in 1999. Closed in 2001.
DreamWorks Interactive / Danger Close Games – Purchased in 2000. Closed in 2013.
Black Box Games – Purchased in 2002. Closed in 2013.
NuFX / EA Chicago – Purchased in 2004. Closed in 2007.
Hypnotix – Purchased and shut down in 2005. Team folded into EA Tiburon.
Mythic Entertainment – Purchased in 2006. Closed in 2014.
Phenomic Game Development – Purchased in 2006. Closed in 2013.
Headgate Studios / EA Salt Lake – Purchased in 2006. Closed in 2017.
Pandemic Studios – Purchased in 2007. Closed in 2009.
J2MSoft – Purchased in 2008 and folded into EA Korea.
Playfish – Purchased in 2009. Closed in 2013.
Chillingo – Purchased in 2010. Began shutting down in 2017. Fully closed in 2023.
Industrial Toys – Purchased in 2018. Closed in 2023.
BioWare – Purchased in 2007. Closed in 2026.

EA employees worked on BioWare games. I know because my brother is one of them.

He worked on Dragon Age, while being an EA employee.

So EA owns all the rights to collect money from their games for that reason and because EA owned BioWare

Batteries Included – Purchased in 1987 and closed that same year.

Origin Systems – Purchased in 1992. Closed in 2004.

Bullfrog Productions – Purchased in 1995. Closed in 2001.

Maxis – Purchased in 1997. Closed in 2015. (Studio name still used by EA.)

Westwood Studios / EA Pacific – Purchased in 1998. Closed in 2003.

Kesmai – Purchased in 1999. Closed in 2001.

DreamWorks Interactive / Danger Close Games – Purchased in 2000. Closed in 2013.

Black Box Games – Purchased in 2002. Closed in 2013.

NuFX / EA Chicago – Purchased in 2004. Closed in 2007.

Hypnotix – Purchased and shut down in 2005. Team folded into EA Tiburon.

Mythic Entertainment – Purchased in 2006. Closed in 2014.

Phenomic Game Development – Purchased in 2006. Closed in 2013.

Headgate Studios / EA Salt Lake – Purchased in 2006. Closed in 2017.

Pandemic Studios – Purchased in 2007. Closed in 2009.

J2MSoft – Purchased in 2008 and folded into EA Korea.

Playfish – Purchased in 2009. Closed in 2013.

Chillingo – Purchased in 2010. Began shutting down in 2017. Fully closed in 2023.

Industrial Toys – Purchased in 2018. Closed in 2023.

BioWare – Purchased in 2007. Closed in 2026.

''woke out the actually name instead''

You're an idiot. Learn english if you're going to preach to people in this language. FYI the name of the game actually is ''MDK2''.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDK2

Dude, why so abrasive?

I said it was great. It was just the start of the path to failure. It wasn't immediately bad, but they were removing the things that made the games special.

The founders and original lead developers - Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk - created over a dozen games before they sold the company.

Idk what else you'd want. They did their thing and then they cashed out to live their lives doing other things.

Bioware wasn't even supposed to be a video game company. It was originally founded to pioneer medical technology and only pivoted when their side project - Shattered Steel - outperformed expectations.

Sometime people need to stop being mad because one participate Treats Train has finally ended it's run. Be glad for the games you got, not sad because it's over

After all, you've still got Larian and Paradox and Owlcat and a thousand other indie studios making equivalent games.

GTA6 trailers all just look like Call of Duty knock offs.

I mean, enjoy yourself, but I was done with that franchise when they peaked back at GTA3

I knew the name you champion. MDK1 and 2 were my favorite games besides Army men 3DO

Squeaky wheel gets the kick!

EA is a pox on humanity now.

upvoted only to retract it for the da2 comment lol. Dragon Age 2 is a great game swamped by tight deadlines, but what's there is fun and it still has the feel of origin where the world feels dangerous. it is so much better than its successors, and honestly if it had the right budget I'd even say it could've been as good as origins.

bioware was dead somewhere in between getting taken over by ea, long before this.

PS1 did a lot to legitimize gaming, probably more than Wii. Up to the SNES/Genesis generation, consoles in particular were perceived as kids' toys. With PS1, Sony and Psygnosis (who did a lot of legwork for Sony) advertised it to college-age folks, hiring The Designers Republic¹ to make the marketing materials for the console and the style of ‘Wipeout’; they put contemporary edm music in the game, made some edgy ads, and organized gaming rooms in fifty nightclubs in the UK alone. PS1 singlehandedly changed the audience of consoles away from just kids, for which Sony thanked Psygnosis by renaming them to SCE Studio Liverpool, making them develop just the ‘Wipeout’ and ‘Formula One’ series, and shutting them down altogether in 2012.

Now guess what people who were in college in 1995, were doing in early-mid 2000s. And note also that Nintendo never really switched away from targeting their games to kids.

¹ The Designers Republic did cover design for many IDM producers, which genre popped up in early-mid 1990s — folks like Autechre, LFO and Aphex Twin, and specifically the Warp label, likewise based in Sheffield. Their design was pretty much the ‘face of ambient techno’.

How about you tell us the ‘actual name’, sucka? Because anyone who was a gamer in 1997-2000 knows of the mystery behind that name.

Developers don't decide who acquires them.

That's why it is sad. You have a really good team and the money hungry management sells them out. That is sad.

The budget and timeline absolutely killed it. Reusing like 4 maps for everything in the whole game got old super fast. And I also didn't care for the change from the tactical combat of the first game at all.

A very fair point.

No no, you're wrong, it was the girls. Girls ruined gaming forever. Stupid girls and their needing to be seen and not be patronized to.

EA has form for turning buyouts into shit. Look at PopCap who produced joyous casual-but-fair games until EA sunk their claws into them.