| Post Reply | RetroFed Forums Forum Index » Rust |
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xoron
programming.dev
xoron@programming.devJoined: 2024-06-14 |
I wanted to implement the Signal protocol for a series of secure messaging apps I’m working on, so I built this project to test and use in my own work. It’s still far from finished, but I think it’s at a stage where it’s worth sharing with the community. IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER: This project is not professionally audited and is not production-ready. I do not recommend anyone use this in their own code yet. It is provided strictly for testing, experimentation, and demo purposes. I used AI as an assistant to help build this, so double-check everything before taking it seriously. Project Links:
Current Status & Development:
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web suffer
piefed.social
suff@piefed.social Joined: 2025-03-27 |
You used LLMs, right? How did you manage to review all this? |
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xoron
programming.dev
xoron@programming.devJoined: 2024-06-14 |
You used LLMs, right? How did you manage to review all this?
thats right. i used LLM's. i reviewed this thoroughly myself. there are some in-house documents published on the website. for exmples threat-models, formal-verification and security audits. they are good for internal review but fundamentally invalid because its like "trust me bro"... and you shouldnt need to. i would like to aim for a third-party review from an org like ROS or NLNet, but open source support isnt easy to come by on project as complicated as this. im sure many orgs are overwhelmed by AI slop and i've failed to make the cut several times, so im not expecting a professiona audit any time soon. feel free to reach out for clarity on the details if you would like to investigate it further. |
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web suffer
piefed.social
suff@piefed.social Joined: 2025-03-27 |
thats right. i used LLM's. i reviewed this thoroughly myself. there are some in-house documents published on the website. for exmples threat-models, formal-verification and security audits. they are good for internal review but fundamentally invalid because its like "trust me bro"... and you shouldnt need to. i would like to aim for a third-party review from an org like ROS or NLNet, but open s...
I mean on code level. How did you make sure, the LLM prints out something maintainable, understandable? |
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xoron
programming.dev
xoron@programming.devJoined: 2024-06-14 |
I mean on code level. How did you make sure, the LLM prints out something maintainable, understandable?
the typical software development approach: unit tests, reviewing PR changes, documenting details and CI/CD (to mention a few steps). its not something i can easily enumerate because in cybersecurity there are countless nuances to consider, which is how we end up with formal verification documents and security audits. all the internal documents are useful for me, but essentially geared toward being a starting point for a third-party reviewer. the impementation here is being used in a couple functional messaging apps (similarly unaudited and unreviewed):
i will also be adding it to an open source project soon as seen at: https://github.com/positive-intentions/chat to give that e2e open-source transparency in the implementation. |
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Miaou
jlai.lu
Miaou@jlai.lu Joined: 2023-08-03 |
Did you remember this time to tell copilot to actually write stuff in the files and not just create them? |
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refalo
programming.dev
refalo@programming.dev Joined: 2024-04-13 |
Similar Signal rust projects: https://github.com/wnoronha/signal-cli https://github.com/foxl-ai/signal-cli |
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Flipper
feddit.org
Flipper@feddit.org Joined: 2024-06-23 |
So you needed an implementation of a e2e protocol in rust. So why didn't you use signals libraries directly? Or the Matrix implementation of it. Or OpenMLS the probable follower of the axolotl protocol. All of which are implemented in Rust. All of them.had at least one security audit. All of them where implemented by people probably knowing much more about cryptonthen you. |
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JustEnoughDucks
feddit.nl
JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nlJoined: 2023-06-12 |
So you needed an implementation of a e2e protocol in rust. So why didn't you use signals libraries directly? Or the Matrix implementation of it. Or OpenMLS the probable follower of the axolotl protocol. All of which are implemented in Rust. All of them.had at least one security audit. All of them where implemented by people probably knowing much more about cryptonthen you.
Because vibe coders would rather spend the extra 100k tokens to have Claude "write it themselves" than actually have to do work in finding and integrating a 3rd party library I think 😂 |
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xoron
programming.dev
xoron@programming.devJoined: 2024-06-14 |
So you needed an implementation of a e2e protocol in rust. So why didn't you use signals libraries directly? Or the Matrix implementation of it. Or OpenMLS the probable follower of the axolotl protocol. All of which are implemented in Rust. All of them.had at least one security audit. All of them where implemented by people probably knowing much more about cryptonthen you.
There are a few nuances to my approach, but the key detail is that I wanted it to also work in a browser so I needed the ability to build to a wasm to be used in js. Signal doesnt offer browser based capabilities and so I created this to target web aswell as native. |
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borosilicate
lemmy.dbzer0.com
borosilicate@lemmy.dbzer0.com Joined: 2026-09-05 |
I used a frontier model to generate an allium spec from your repo and it found a few bugs. I like to run apps through allium to prepare for formal verification because it tends to find a LOT of flaws in even the most robust apps. The allium spec file is too large to share here but it can be generated by any frontier model. Defects, three of them confirmed by running probes against the crate:
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xoron
programming.dev
xoron@programming.devJoined: 2024-06-14 |
I used a frontier model to generate an allium spec from your repo and it found a few bugs. I like to run apps through allium to prepare for formal verification because it tends to find a LOT of flaws in even the most robust apps. The allium spec file is too large to share here but it can be generated by any frontier model. Defects, three of them confirmed by running probes against the crate: P1...
Thanks! This is very helpful! I'll take a look and fix it. |
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borosilicate
lemmy.dbzer0.com
borosilicate@lemmy.dbzer0.com Joined: 2026-09-05 |
Thanks! This is very helpful! I'll take a look and fix it.
No problem. It’s a surprisingly good tool despite relying completely on hallucination machines. |
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