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What is behind the current Lemmy meme about 4 being a private key?
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toddestan
lemmy.world
toddestan@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-07-29
#52 Posted:   Subject: Re: What is behind the current Lemmy meme about 4 being a pri... Quote Reply

https://arstechnica.com/security/2026/10/the-internet-goes-on-high-alert-after-discovery-of-8-compromised-tls-certs/ It's hard to properly describe how big a fuckup this is. All I will say is that all the coverage I've seen is underselling the potential for harm. There's nothing you can do except update your shit, pray that everyone in the upstream supply chain of every service you use has upda...

Well, even if there's no update for your shit, it's still possible to go into the certificate store your browser/OS/whatever uses and delete the compromised certificates.

Not much you can do about everyone else not updating their shit though.

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alcoholicorn
lemmy.ml
alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2024-02-13
#53 Posted:   Subject: Re: What is behind the current Lemmy meme about 4 being a pri... Quote Reply

17
ilinamorato
lemmy.world
ilinamorato@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-09-27
#54 Posted:   Subject: Re: What is behind the current Lemmy meme about 4 being a pri... Quote Reply

Except this is internet and pretty much anybody on the planet could test the security of your doors. I like the analogy but I think it doesn't really apply when it comes to devices that are connected to the internet.

I think their analogy is still good. Just add "...and your door opens onto Times Square."

That doesn't quite get the full scope, but it does imply the danger pretty well. Plus, if you add in "...Times Square of robots, and the robots are all thieves, and your most expensive possession is visibly sitting right inside, and..." it starts to get pretty unwieldy.

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DaPorkchop_ [they/she/it]
lemmy.ml

DaPorkchop_@lemmy.ml
Joined: 2023-06-02
#55 Posted:   Subject: Re: What is behind the current Lemmy meme about 4 being a pri... Quote Reply

8
AnAmericanPotato
programming.dev
AnAmericanPotato@programming.dev
Joined: 2024-05-14
#56 Posted:   Subject: Re: What is behind the current Lemmy meme about 4 being a pri... Quote Reply

Well, even if there's no update for your shit, it's still possible to go into the certificate store your browser/OS/whatever uses and delete the compromised certificates. Not much you can do about everyone else not updating their shit though.

Yeah. The burden is high, though, and it's outside even most tech-savvy admins' scope of knowledge.

I mean, I could not tell you off the top of my head how many certificate stores exist on my system and what uses each of them. Is curl safe? Is dnf safe? apt-get? zypper? pip? npm? homebrew? flatpak? Do any of my umpteen Flatpak apps have vulnerable library versions baked in? Do Electron apps bundle their own certificate stores? What about that has its own built-in autoupdater (less of a problem on Linux than Mac or Windows, but still)?

2
Xtallll
lemmy.blahaj.zone

Xtallll@lemmy.blahaj.zone
Joined: 2023-06-18
#57 Posted:   Subject: Re: What is behind the current Lemmy meme about 4 being a pri... Quote Reply

Not if you're brute forcing it.

0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000100

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humanspiral
lemmy.ca
humanspiral@lemmy.ca
Joined: 2024-10-23
#58 Posted:   Subject: Re: What is behind the current Lemmy meme about 4 being a pri... Quote Reply

Check the alt text on that one :-)

5 is objectively more secure than 4, unless 4 was perfectly random, of course.

1
smitty
lemmy.zip
smitty@lemmy.zip
Joined: 2026-10-20
#59 Posted:   Subject: Re: What is behind the current Lemmy meme about 4 being a pri... Quote Reply

Well ..... this has taken me down am SSL cryptographic rabbit hole.

4
JcbAzPx
lemmy.world
JcbAzPx@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-07-06
#60 Posted:   Subject: Re: What is behind the current Lemmy meme about 4 being a pri... Quote Reply

[deleted]
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sznowicki
lemmy.world
sznowicki@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-08-02
#61 Posted:   Subject: Re: What is behind the current Lemmy meme about 4 being a pri... Quote Reply

We live in a simulation https://xkcd.com/221/

3
lamp
lemmy.world
lamp@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-06-16
#62 Posted:   Subject: Re: What is behind the current Lemmy meme about 4 being a pri... Quote Reply

Interesting question! Google spit this out and it makes sense: The primary reason these specific keys/issuers were created was to solve data sovereignty and data residency requirements for customers in those regions. Many European and US corporate clients operate under strict legal frameworks (like GDPR in Europe or various federal compliance standards in the US) that legally dictate where cryp...

Google is wrong. There is no security benefit to using an SSL certificate signer in your jurisdiction because a hacked or malicious certificate authority in another jurisdiction can man-in-the-middle you or your customers just as effectively.

Certificate authorities do not decrypt data or even transfer it on behalf of customers.

2
lamp
lemmy.world
lamp@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-06-16
#63 Posted:   Subject: Re: What is behind the current Lemmy meme about 4 being a pri... Quote Reply

They are saying there were mistakes made with their key generation scripts: We have done some preliminary assessment, there appears to be a flaw in the KGC script that was used on that specific day to create these ECC issuers. As for these ECC keys, our review of the KGC, assessment of the code and view of HSM keys so far indicate that a) a set of original ECC keys were created onboard as expec...

By "export" I think they mean export off of the hardware security module (HSM). Not export geographically.

2
Kazumara
discuss.tchncs.de
Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de
Joined: 2024-04-13
#64 Posted: · edited   Subject: Re: What is behind the current Lemmy meme about 4 being a pri... Quote Reply

By "export" I think they mean export off of the hardware security module (HSM). Not export geographically.

I'm not so sure. Because shortly after the above quote they answered this to the next question:

Is there any reason which may explain why the A and A-1 ECDSA keys appear to be unaffected by similar issues?

The A and A-1 series were created in Entrust HSMs and were meant for deployment only in India.

And previously in Comment 10 they said about the bad keys

These ICAs were generated from the same key ceremony on Apr 30, 2025. The G3B and G3C ICAs were created for European and US operations respectively but they were not put into production except #2 in the list below but no end entity certificates were issued from these. The Code Signing issuers were not put into production also did not issue any certificates.

That's why I think somehow the intended place of use made a difference in their process. But it could be you're right and they still mean HSM export, because the keys need to go to the region of use, and aren't transported physically in the HSM.

1
JackbyDev
programming.dev

JackbyDev@programming.dev
Joined: 2023-06-13
#65 Posted: · edited   Subject: Re: What is behind the current Lemmy meme about 4 being a pri... Quote Reply

TL;DR Because a Certificate Authority used 4 as a private key in an intermediate certificate.

2
shalafi
lemmy.world

shalafi@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-07-22
#66 Posted:   Subject: Re: What is behind the current Lemmy meme about 4 being a pri... Quote Reply

Google is wrong. There is no security benefit to using an SSL certificate signer in your jurisdiction because a hacked or malicious certificate authority in another jurisdiction can man-in-the-middle you or your customers just as effectively. Certificate authorities do not decrypt data or even transfer it on behalf of customers.

It's about compliance, not security.

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