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Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill
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bacon_pdp
lemmy.world
bacon_pdp@lemmy.world
Joined: 2024-01-02
#252 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

Wayland is not good. Programming languages peaked with Lisp.

Which Lisp though?

Scheme, Common Lisp, Lisp2 or one of the countless others that are incompatible?

1
philipp_
discuss.tchncs.de
philipp_@discuss.tchncs.de
Joined: 2024-02-24
#253 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

Wayland is not good. Programming languages peaked with Lisp.

What is wrong with wayland.

1
philipp_
discuss.tchncs.de
philipp_@discuss.tchncs.de
Joined: 2024-02-24
#254 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

systemd does a lot of things very right and a mayor reason that linux is in a way better place than 15 years ago. 27 unmaintained tools are not better than one that is professionally developed.

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dumnezero
piefed.social

dumnezero@piefed.social
Joined: 2024-11-27
#255 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

jaxDJ3EmAZIL5vA.png

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Allero
lemmy.today
Allero@lemmy.today
Joined: 2023-12-20
#256 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

systemd does a lot of things very right and a mayor reason that linux is in a way better place than 15 years ago. 27 unmaintained tools are not better than one that is professionally developed.

systemd has me in two places. Like, on one side, it's just SO much better and easier than the rest - at least to me, someone who doesn't work in IT and just wants his stuff to work. On the other, init freedom is essential, and we need the alternatives to stay alive.

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ILikeBoobies
lemmy.ca
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca
Joined: 2023-08-14
#257 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

What is wrong with wayland.

In covering the use cases of X it became just as much a mess.

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Allero
lemmy.today
Allero@lemmy.today
Joined: 2023-12-20
#258 Posted: · edited   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

if you're making a user-facing program, you should always design with the possibility that it will be run on some truly dogshit hardware and you should make sure that they still have a good experience. good computer hardware is a luxury on the world scale, even before the rampocalypse related, but the answer to the question "who still uses {x} these days?" is almost always way, wayyyy more peop...

Me when I got my commercial NAS with 7 years of support, I was thinking: "who even keeps hardware for this long?"

Me, 7 years later: "What do you mean EOL?!"

I certainly learned to care for and appreciate the hardware these years.

5
kionay
lemmy.world
kionay@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-07-01
#259 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

I disagree when it comes to standardized single-letter variable names. They're invaluable when writing dense code for games or other math-heavy applications and you learn to recognize them very quickly. So i for index in loops (and j, k for nested loops, but you're almost always doing something wrong if you need them); x, y, z for position and h, w for size; r, g, b, a for color data, etc - you...

I can concede that in games programming (which I'm not a game dev so I often forget about) x, y, and z coordinates are a valid exception.

I would disagree about w and h for width and height, typing them out feels like i for index

I worry about the phrase, "you'll immediately know what the variable is for at a glance even though it's a single character"

how often have you heard developers say that something is simple and it's just because they wrote it? maybe it is obvious, but if it were more verbose it would be just as obvious but without any possibility of misunderstanding

and even if it's obvious now there's no guarantee a future developer doesn't pull that variable out and mutate it or do something else with it, and maybe they should change it at that point but the effort to have it verbosely named from the start is miniscule

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hansolo
lemmy.today

hansolo@lemmy.today
Joined: 2025-06-07
#260 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

if you're making a user-facing program, you should always design with the possibility that it will be run on some truly dogshit hardware and you should make sure that they still have a good experience. good computer hardware is a luxury on the world scale, even before the rampocalypse related, but the answer to the question "who still uses {x} these days?" is almost always way, wayyyy more peop...

There's about 0.2% of people still using internet explorer, per one market share site I found.

Which works out to potentially millions of people.

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setVeryLoud(true);
lemmy.ca

isVeryLoud@lemmy.ca
Joined: 2023-04-19
#261 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

The billionaire tech bros are making money hand over fist without the need for advertisers subsidizing them, and interrupting users all over the world. Little secret...the users know products exist and will go out and seek those products when it is necessary to do so. This activity leads to learning about more products through the ancient art of "browsing".

Advertising is education with misinformation

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SapphironZA
sh.itjust.works
SapphironZA@sh.itjust.works
Joined: 2024-02-24
#262 Posted: · edited   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

I agree on their usefulness but as long as you don't use local and open LLMs you are unfortunately part of the ecosystem that does the damage. Luckily open models are catching on and hopefully some reliable companies take up on this business model.

I can't wait for the crash, so that we can get more sustainable AI and access to the hardware to run it.

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ArsonButCute
programming.dev
ArsonButCute@programming.dev
Joined: 2026-01-08
#263 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

if you're making a user-facing program, you should always design with the possibility that it will be run on some truly dogshit hardware and you should make sure that they still have a good experience. good computer hardware is a luxury on the world scale, even before the rampocalypse related, but the answer to the question "who still uses {x} these days?" is almost always way, wayyyy more peop...

I do my web development on a 2005 era windows XP machine without the unofficial SP4 because if it will run there (without silverlight) I know for damn sure it will run well on anything made today.

2
SapphironZA
sh.itjust.works
SapphironZA@sh.itjust.works
Joined: 2024-02-24
#264 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

Why not both? Both is good

Nah, that would be like refusing to use a calculator, because they make them from unrecyclable plastic.

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SapphironZA
sh.itjust.works
SapphironZA@sh.itjust.works
Joined: 2024-02-24
#265 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

I am anti commercial capitalistic LLMs which, coincidentally is ALL of them. "B-But Axo the open weigh—!" They are NOT open, it's the equivalent of giving you the executable of M$ Edge or a Windows ISO and calling it open, fuck this shit

If I was king of the world, I would rule that all AI models were based on stealing from all the knowledge of humanity. Since it cannot be un-stolen, I would decree that all copyright is unenforceable and all current proprietary data must be public domain forever as restitution for the abuse.

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notptr
lemmy.cyberia9.org

notptr@lemmy.cyberia9.org
Joined: 2026-03-25
#266 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

Perl is a fuckin' awesome programming language, and it's too bad other languages didn't learn from it. I will forever miss you $_

Other languages took perl's regex engine

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Hundun
beehaw.org
Hundun@beehaw.org
Joined: 2023-06-20
#267 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

If you are getting paid for engineering software, your labour should be licenced in an appropriate jurisdiction, and you should be liable to losing said licence if you do shit job.

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marcos
lemmy.world
marcos@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-06-16
#268 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

systemd does a lot of things very right and a mayor reason that linux is in a way better place than 15 years ago. 27 unmaintained tools are not better than one that is professionally developed.

Systemd solves a very important problem that was defined extremely well.

It also solves it badly, and solved a whole lot of other badly defined problems that it shouldn't.

4
marcos
lemmy.world
marcos@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-06-16
#269 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

Functional is better than object orientated programming

There's nothing in Functional Programming that stops you from writing in an Object Oriented idiom...

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Ethan
programming.dev

firelizzard@programming.dev
Joined: 2023-06-12
#270 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

React is a plague. useState and all the other use hooks.

5
Ethan
programming.dev

firelizzard@programming.dev
Joined: 2023-06-12
#271 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

You know what, I’ve been a Firefox user since the days of beta Phoenix. I’ve expressed your view for years now - Firefox was great, but held back by a commercial org that want led fancy SF offices, fancy SF compensation etc. But I tried out Helium a little while ago and in truth, I’m not sure Firefox is all that good these days. Helium is basically ungoogled-chromium + extension support + super...

Mozilla has totally lost their way. But using any chromium-based browser is still bowing down to Google’s near monopolistic control over web ‘standards’.

2
Ethan
programming.dev

firelizzard@programming.dev
Joined: 2023-06-12
#272 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

Safari? I'm not suggesting you use it, but it does exist.

I’d care if they had a Linux version

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wewbull
feddit.uk
wewbull@feddit.uk
Joined: 2023-06-22
#273 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

Could you define what you mean by functional and ooo in practice, because to many people in pracitce functionsl is a garbage monad wrapper over anything with unreadable, undebugable code whose only purpose is to hide if else statements... and it doesn't even do that; while ooo is java factory of factoties mixed with aspect programming and 20 levels of inheritance.

Not Op but..

OO languages have classes with inheritance based polymorphism. I don't see struts + methods as enough to qualify.

Functional languages have functions which can take functions as arguments and function composition as first class features.

2
marcos
lemmy.world
marcos@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-06-16
#274 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

Not the oc, but honestly just random shit, like: Linq. Async and await are both in python or rust, but still via anexternal provider afaik (like Tokio). Explicit interface implementation (default trait implementation for the Rust fans)? Nice source generators and what you can fo with them (kinda like aspect programming). Idk if python or js support pattern matching or proper low level or no GC ...

Linq

AKA - We have Monads at home...

Rust is really missing something like do syntax. It's half-way there with the semicolon and question marks, but it's missing an idiom for .map_or_else and to generalize the thing to work with a trait.

1
Excel
lemming.megumin.org

excel@lemming.megumin.org
Joined: 2025-12-27
#275 Posted: · edited   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

systemd has me in two places. Like, on one side, it's just SO much better and easier than the rest - at least to me, someone who doesn't work in IT and just wants his stuff to work. On the other, init freedom is essential, and we need the alternatives to stay alive.

APIs generally don’t need many alternatives, only implementations do.
There’s no reason devs should be trying to provide init files in multiple formats.
If the systemd team actually did something bad, then people could just make a different implementation of systemd without requiring a different format for init files.
Arguing for more init systems is like saying we need more APIs to compete with both Wayland and X11, instead of just talking about implementations of those protocols.

2
marcos
lemmy.world
marcos@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-06-16
#276 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

C++ is an awful language overall. Linus is just some guy with good programming skills and not an authority over anything tech. There aren't any good text editors in the wild. VSCode is awful apart from extension support. Kate is close to being perfect but lack of extensions are pulling it back. Vim, Helix, Emacs, NeoVim are all flex toys. nvm just tried zed with AI disabled AI bad

Zed sucks in many of the ways that modern editors suck.

Autocompleting on characters that appear in code, and autocompleting in a way that overwrites the code you have already written are two incredibly stupid decisions that put a mark over any tool that adopts any one of them.

But then, Zed almost working, but in a way that still sucks was enough to motivate me into setting my Emacs properly, in a way that doesn't suck. So Zed gave me a good editor.

0
TootSweet
lemmy.world
TootSweet@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-08-04
#277 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

In reply to an earlier post

Is this position against lookup or read-only db tables?

Largely, yes.

The kind of cases where I've seen people stick things in the database that I thought would better be elsewhere:

  • If it's small and doesn't need to change between releases, you can save all the moving-part kind of overhead of pulling that data from the database just by throwing that data in the source code. Often times people do this just so they can have a "foreign key" to something in the data in question. But a nice, semantic "enum" sort of field in the database can refer to something static that's already in memory no problem.
  • If it needs to change at an administrator's or developer's (or manager's) whim, it's probably configuration, not dynamic data. In the Java ecosystem, Spring Cloud Config makes it easy to change configuration without releasing the code. (I mean, in a perfect world, releasing should be as easy and straightforward as changing configuration, but not everyone lives in a company where all the managers have read The Phoenix Project and caught the DevOps bug.) Putting configuration in the database tends to create a big audit trail gap, unless you spend a bunch of effort building a custom audit trail kind of system.
  • If it's big and not (very?) relational, it may be better suited for files in a directory. This can be true even if it does change based on user input. (Users uploading images, for instance.)

Mind you, certain kinds of behind-the-scenes users can still qualify as "users" for purposes of considering whether "it needs to change based on user input". For instance, if your marketing department (without software engineering expertise) needs to be able to mess around (without software engineering assistance) with marketing materials displayed on customer-facing websites, you probably need a content-management system of some sort, and I don't think the database is necessarily a bad place to store a lot of that information. (Things like images probably shouldn't go in the database, but metadata about those images are probably quite reasonable data for the database.)

Also, I'm rethinking the term "user input". I could certainly see it being reasonable for automated systems to put data in the database. Like, if you have a scraper doing stuff to be displayed to end users, that doesn't belong in the source code or configuration, and if it's very relatioal, it could well belong in the database. Maybe it'd be better to say "if it doesn't change based on client input, it doesn't belong in the database."

1
marcos
lemmy.world
marcos@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-06-16
#278 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

In reply to an earlier post

I do really disagree here. Name lengths should be proportional to the size of their scope.

If your function has 1 line, your local variables should almost all have 1 letter.

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Axolotl.cpp
lemmy.dbzer0.com

Axolotl_cpp@lemmy.dbzer0.com
Joined: 2026-10-01
#279 Posted: · edited   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

If I was king of the world, I would rule that all AI models were based on stealing from all the knowledge of humanity. Since it cannot be un-stolen, I would decree that all copyright is unenforceable and all current proprietary data must be public domain forever as restitution for the abuse.

Here your crown sir 👑

1
themaninblack
lemmy.world
themaninblack@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-07-10
#280 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

If there are spelling mistakes in your codebase, that’s a huge smell

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kalpol
lemmy.ca
kalpol@lemmy.ca
Joined: 2025-06-05
#281 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

Systemd solves a very important problem that was defined extremely well. It also solves it badly, and solved a whole lot of other badly defined problems that it shouldn't.

This is my argument. Do init. Don't pull in literally everything else because you think you know better, like system logging.

2
gwl [he/him]
lemmy.blahaj.zone

gwl@lemmy.blahaj.zone
Joined: 2025-10-16
#282 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

Nah, that would be like refusing to use a calculator, because they make them from unrecyclable plastic.

Bad comparison, it's like refusing to use a calculator because it uses 200 times the amount of energy of existing calculators, was trained on stolen data, and despite all that gets the answer wrong

0
jason
discuss.online
jason@discuss.online
Joined: 2024-12-11
#283 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

OOP dogma isn't just bad, it's actively harmful. OOP leads to unnecessary boilerplate. Any boilerplate that is not absolutely necessary is noise and bad. Full stop.

Private (Getters/setters): Strictly not a necessity in any sense of the word.

Short functions everywhere.

Short files everywhere.

I prefer to see the steps of execution that are actually happening in the real world on hardware. Not an ivory tower of code that happens to execute.

8
mindbleach
sh.itjust.works
mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
Joined: 2023-08-27
#284 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

It's funny how both anti-AI and pro-AI folks think they're the one in the middle. But the anti-AI crowd is proclaiming that any use is the devil!, and one drop means the whole project is forever worthless, and ten minutes will make your brain dribble out your ears... while the pro-AI crowd just says it's probably fine. Not miraculous. Flawed and suspect. Local would be better. Basically would you please just relax about the chatbot, and condemn companies doing mass layoffs for any reason?

When even Cory Doctorow is going 'LLMs have problems, but here's how I use them,' pack it in. This fight is over.

0
Hasherm0n
lemmy.world
Hasherm0n@lemmy.world
Joined: 2023-07-02
#285 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

In reply to an earlier post

I saw a nice counter to the "a poor craftsman..." analogy the other day that basically boiled down to a master craftsman will have very high standards about the tools they use.

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charokol
lemmy.zip
charokol@lemmy.zip
Joined: 2026-07-27
#286 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

It's funny how both anti-AI and pro-AI folks think they're the one in the middle. But the anti-AI crowd is proclaiming that any use is the devil!, and one drop means the whole project is forever worthless, and ten minutes will make your brain dribble out your ears... while the pro-AI crowd just says it's probably fine. Not miraculous. Flawed and suspect. Local would be better. Basically would y...

It sounds like you’re comparing the most reasonable views of the pro-AI crowd to the most reactionary views of the anti-AI crowd

4
mindbleach
sh.itjust.works
mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
Joined: 2023-08-27
#287 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

In reply to an earlier post

Nobody hates Javascript like people who use Javascript.

1
𝕄𝕚𝕔𝕜𝕖𝕥
swiss.social

MicKet@swiss.social
Joined: 2025-03-23
#288 Posted: · edited   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

In reply to an earlier post

@Humanius @danhab99 Formating is so 1990. Modern would be to store Program code as database. Formating and UX of program code would be separated and an IDE would show Program code in the user preferred way.But every Developer: "Hey modern way to store structured Data, you are wrong for my Work."#structureddata #developer #conservatives #notonmywatch #codeformatting

1
mindbleach
sh.itjust.works
mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
Joined: 2023-08-27
#289 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

In reply to an earlier post

Perl is write-only code. Larry Wall raised a monkey's paw and asked for a language that works the way programmers want. So most scripts are the first thing someone tried - unfiltered by rigid syntax putting your thoughts in order, or compiler warnings bringing side effects to mind, or even names forcing you to decide what a variable is. An uncommented Perl script is raw brain patterns decoded as ASCII.

Thank god it runs like shit. Fast C isn't exactly gorgeous, but any project that compiles is proof the coder fought the machine and won.

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ThunderComplex
lemmy.today
ThunderComplex@lemmy.today
Joined: 2023-10-08
#290 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

I saw a nice counter to the "a poor craftsman..." analogy the other day that basically boiled down to a master craftsman will have very high standards about the tools they use.

Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with this. And it's not only frustrating that PHP doesn't live up to the high bar, every ""major"" update to PHP (that you graciously only get once a year) is only a small step in the right direction. They try to modernize it, buuut also try to keep it as backwards compatible as possible.

And I think I've also seen a counter to the "a master craftsman will have very high standards" argument that boils down to "a master craftsman can work with any tool regardless of quality" but why can't we have higher standards in the programming world?

1
Shanmugha
lemmy.world
Shanmugha@lemmy.world
Joined: 2025-02-08
#291 Posted:   Subject: Re: Anon died on the "clang format bad" hill Quote Reply

In reply to an earlier post

I have no idea how anyone who ever used it for anything actually useful can be defending it

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