The Guardian is british.

Would you consider it siding with teh empire if you intervene when they are hanging gay people?

Basically the government would lose time catching them again when they could be looking for spies instead

Of course not. There have been plenty of protests in Iran over the last several decades and there has never been the situation that we saw in this most recent violent episode. It's like you live in a world where there is no history, there's only a collection of vague facts strictly formed into a Manichean moral framing and nothing is going to stop you from creating decontextualized trolley problems that make your vibes-based conclusion both obvious and vacuous.

Edit: an interesting thing to note, Iran allows transgender people who have undergone gender-affirming surgery to change their legal gender markers, something the empire is actively working to fight against. In fact, in the US, the ability to legally change your sex on official records was only partially admitted in some states and only became a more generally accepted law in the last 20 years. So even while Iran is quite possibly the most hostile government towards the queer community in the entire world right now, they still have this one area where they are actually more progressive than the US.

Eventually, they will succeed. If you understand Iran's demographics and the history behind those demographics, this is the logical conclusion. The mullahs' days are numbered.

... All the more reason an invasion is all the more stupid. Iran is a problem that will deal with itself.

at this point I'm don't understand it but I can see it as a possible future for a lot of Latin America

we are watching in real time how Venezuela is transforming into a US colony

right now Fidel's grandson is allegedly making deals with the US gov (while the US asks Mexico to stop any deals involving gas with Cuba)

and here in Mexico the state is so corrupt and the US propaganda is running strong for an intervention like the one in Venezuela (and what happened yesterday just made it worse)

So these people should teach their children that they should give up on hoping for a better life, because that would somehow help teh empire?

I hope you teach your kids something different

I want the privilege to ignore the US imperialism

That's a weird response to my post, lol

I think you have whipped yourself into such a frenzy against the US that you've become unable to empathise with or even understand the plight of the common people in Iran

Whipped myself into a frenzy? Like a blood frenzy? Like the US killing 500k children in Iraq and then saying they'd do it again? Like forming Zero Units in Afghanistan with child soldiers trained to rape, torture, and murder civilians, families, and other children? Like using white phosphorus against civilians which bonds to the water in flesh and burns people to death in the most gruesome way you can imagine? Like funding and facilitating a genocide in Gaza where soldiers literally mass murder families in their refugee camps or people coming to aid trucks for food and water?

That kind of frenzy?

The common people in Iran are not a single bloc. There are millions protesting on behalf of the government and millions protesting against the government. What I do know about the common people of Iran is that US intervention is absolutely going kill hundreds of thousands of civilians and result in neocolonial dominance of the land and the people that will last for years until the empire is pushed out by whatever force necessary.

You're such a bad propagandist. Hope for better life doesn't help the empire. Hope for a better life comes from hoping for the death of the empire, the end of sanctions, the end of neocolonial oppression and extraction. When the empire dies, Iran will flourish for all Iranians. That is what Iranians hope for. No one hopes for American bombs.

That's a claim you'd need to provide evidence for. Really, really good evidence.

I am doing nothing. You are claiming bullshit and don't even know jackshit about the news outlets you're making up shit about.

Also, I'm not even from the US.

I'm not sure why you are acting like I'm the one that said there was a valid verifiable report of this. My initial comment was literally talking about how people were lying about the numbers and saying it was "reported as 80,000"

This was the propaganda going around Twitter. A "report" can literally just be someone from inside Iran reporting on it. Which is exactly what that tweet was.

Maybe I worded my comment poorly? I was pointing to the absurdity of a number like 80,000 being taken seriously. And now for some reason you want a verified report of that? I'm so confused.

What did I invent, exactly?

we are very aware of the guardian's propaganda

Evidence or GTFO.

Why would you say

how can anyone print that number?

when no one printed it?

You're using it to back up someone saying we can't "trust the murderous media" but it's just lies

Do you think they'll drop their religious oppression when the empire dies?

Why don't they drop it now?

Maybe you should channel all of this anger into a book or something.

As I said, you're so focussed on what you recently learned about the US that you're unable to see the Iranian regime for what it is. They're what would happen when you let the conservatives have full control over the US for 40 years. Progressives: murdered. Socialists: murdered. Anyone who dares to speak up: murdered.

And here's you saying they should 'come together with their government'

It's literally the only thing that has worked for them. They had a liberal democracy and the US and UK murdered their way to a coup and took over the country for years while extracting wealth and killing dissidents. The theocracy has thus far maintained Iran's autonomy against the West for the longest period of time in modern history.

Yes, when the empire dies regressive theocracies will slowly fade. As we see literally all over the world, a reduction in violent oppression and an increase in economic prosperity reduces religious fanaticism and regressive social attitudes.

But it's genuinely disheartening how readily nominally progressive spaces are jumping abord the manufactured consent for an imperialist military intervention by Israel and the US.

Please provide evidence where this generally left-of-centre british reporting is "manufacturing consent". Which text lines do you think are trying to make us readers agree to that kind of action by these two states?

Lol they murdered and tortured the communists and socialists that helped win the revolution. They imposed their extremist version of islam and murdered and tortured everyone that dared to protest.

"It's the only thing that worked for them"

&
"I'm sure they'll stop after they've won"

flol

So Iran's inflation, food and water costs, blackouts and other problems weren't casual whatsoever?

It all happened coz a bunch of university lecturer's told their students to go uprise?

You think the litany I went through is anger and not just historical fact? That's on you.

you're so focussed on what you recently learned about the US

Shitty propagandist technique to emotionally rile up your discursive partner. I see you.

you're unable to see the Iranian regime for what it is

You don't get to be the arbiter of reality. I see it for what it is.

They're what would happen when you let the conservatives have full control over the US for 40 years

This is so obviously false. US religious racists have had full control over the country starting from the founding, for far longer than 40 years. It resulted in completely different conditions, because it started from completely different conditions. I can't even enumerate all the ways in which this is wrong.

First off, Iran is not a settler colony founded fundamentally on indigenous genocide, land theft, and chattel slavery.

Second, Iran does not use religion as a justification for a globe-spanning military empire. It is an indigenous culture on its homeland. It is defending against imperial incursion, not engaging in the management of the contradictions of empire, which is what the Christian conservative movement in the US is doing.

I will stop there because I don't think I'll ever convince you of anything that contradicts your preconceived notions

Book #2!

It is an indigenous culture on its homeland.

I chuckle once more and, as you seem at least somewhat interested in history, serve you this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelver_Shi'ism
&
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Iran

Ugh. I promise this is the last time I will rise to your bait.

It is literally impossible for religions themselves to be "original" to a land. Religions develop among indigenous cultures and they compete for mindshare. All religions emerge from the activities of humans in social contexts and religions winning or losing mindshare is not enough to conside them indigenous or colonizing. It is the PEOPLE who are of the land or not of the land. At the cutting edge of indigenous social science there is research and analysis going on about the process of becoming indigenous to place since nearly all place with humans on it received humans through migration. Your shallow analysis of the history of Islam is useless in navigating this terrain.

The people of Iran, including the people who form the government, the people who support the government, and the people who oppose the government, are indigenous to the lands that they occupy. Their development and use of religion is [edit] not [/edit] genetic - ideas are not indigenous to lands, people are.

And now that that's been dealt with, we return back to your statement that the Iranian government is what would happen in the US if conservatives had unopposed power for 40 years. Your own references to Wikipedia show that position to be completely at odds with reality.

But you don't read sources to understand. You read sources to reinforce your already preconceived positions, cherry pick the smallest facts that you can vibe with, draw incorrect conclusions, and then assume everyone else is less educated than you are and operating purely from irrational positions of emotion and ideological fervor.

Bye.

Thanks!

btw I think this is your best sentence in there:

Their development and use of religion is genetic - ideas are not indigenous to lands, people are

“But we know the regime can no longer kill students on campus and call us terrorists … We are not afraid of losing our lives. We all are willing to put our lives on the line so at least the next generations of this country will live in freedom and peace.”

Very great to hear and gives me so much hope for the future.

I will try to explain. Protesting allows to determine how many are generally "on board" with an idea. If you protest and you see that you have a supermajority (e.g. 90%) the point is moot, then the armed services are likely also on your side (e.g. USSR in 1991).

The next step, changing the government, usually requires a bit of force. It can take two typical forms:

a) people overcome cops while the army does nothing

b) units of the army rebel and overcome cops

c) units of the army fight each other in a civil war

Now, as you may guess, option C is pretty bad - weaponry made for international defense gets unleashed internally with no clear lines of conflict. But option A is pretty tame and B can be reasonably quick and bloodless.

It all starts with a show of hands, and an evaluation of how many are OK with a plan - inside a group and between groups. If too few show up, one knows the time is wrong. If a modest amount show up, one knows to be careful. And so forth.

Look dude. Just because you were not paying attention to articles at the time doesn't mean I'm wrong.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NewIran/s/mEVnnKEJ4w

This same shit was spreading around social media and many news outlets printed "some estimates inside Iran put the number at 80,000".

It was bull shit and every single outlet that printed it has modified their reports since. I'm not sure why it's so hard for you to believe that the media grabbed the largest number they could and ran with it for a day.

I've shown you where this number came from. It's not "just a post on Twitter". It was from inside the country during a total internet blackout. The media ate it up for a day because there was nothing else coming out of Iran at the time.

Why is this so hard to understand? What evidence are you looking for? Because it's gonna be tweets or "way back machine" articles from Fox/NewsMax or Israeli newspapers. I'll find them tonight if I have time. But you are just as capable of looking.

Yes, believe it or not, I made a comment about something that I literally saw happening in real time and didn't bookmark. Fuck me right?

He's from .ml, he won't ever offer evidence, he'll just continue to accuse you of all the worst things he can think of.

Iran did kill thousands of its own people. Were you sleeping? It wasn't even that long ago.

And nobody mentioned bombing Iran but you. This is an article about Iranian student protestors.

The Iranian government cut off internet and satellite connections nationwide during the massacres. And some videos did still manage to leak out.

By respecting their agency.

The american savages are drooling at the prospect of colonizing Latin America as part of their future war effort with china. They will plant propaganda everywhere to steal from the global south as the death throes of their crumbling empire.

I would believe anything regarding foreign policy coming from a bloodthirsty brit.

The us is complete utter shit.

Not suddenly at all. I followed the New Iran movement back in 2021. I cared about their cause then and I care about it now. Are you suggesting we shouldn't care about the plights of the proletariat around the world?

Trump is a fascist, but that doesn't mean I have to support the Ayatollah. And this article isn't about the impending US invasion, it's about the Iranian protesters. Get a clue.

you are the one corroborating the claim iran is killing its people

Do you know what (to) corroborate means?

I don't think western conservatives care about Iranian civilian casualties. If you're suggesting I'm a conservative, you couldn't be more wrong.

Also, this is The Guardian. They're not owned by billionaires. Oh, and they're not the only source or evidence for the atrocities committed by the Iranian government against its own civilians, either. You're the one rejecting evidence.

You're clearly just a shill running cover for the mullah, so why don't you go eat shit?

They were mostly caused by Trumps maximum pressure sanctions campaign which has been suffocating the economy for over a decade.

The internet has been back for a while now, and there's no chance nobody could have leaked anything. Israel cut off internet power and was actively bombing every neighborhood of Gaza and footage still got out.

Don't be silly.

Left of centre

The guardian.

I'm not sure you know what it means to be left of centre.

People said the exact same thing about Libya in 2011. ‘Just military targets.’ ‘Just a no-fly zone.’ It's genuinely impressive how the same script can be rolled out over and over.

What it actually meant was destroying Libya’s air defenses and command systems. Once that was done, NATO pushed regime change, the state collapsed, and the country was handed over to militias, foreign powers, and jihadist groups. That’s the model.

When people say ‘only military targets,’ they’re repeating the same script. You don’t bomb a country’s defenses unless your goal is to weaken it. Once that happens, it’s open season: invasion, proxy forces, destabilization. These strikes are never isolated. They’re step one.

May Iran become an Islamic Kingdom again.