Would you prefer

Not at all!

I like serious publications very much, and I was also well humored by all these shoutings about revolutions...

It takes time to scale production and even more time to adopt a new technology.

All that data says is batteries got cheaper so they are putting more of them into cars. Also 100 to 300 wh/kg is in labs. No explanation why it went from 175 to 100 Wh/kg 08-10.

Shhhh.....we're having a bullshit feel good moment...

multiply this (Current x Time)/(Weight) value by the nominal voltage of the cell to get to (Power x Time)/(Weight).

This is the part that annoys me. The nominal voltage could vary between different batteries. 200Ah/g means different capacity for a 6v battery verses a 48v battery. I'm guessing battery scientists are using standardized nominal voltages for these tests or are seeing the same Ah/g capacity at different voltages (that I may have simply missed in the paper because I skimmed it and I don't claim any deeper knowledge on battery research)

You can't buy anything with solid state batteries yet, and when you can, they will cost a fortune.

These press releases are weekly. Naxtra will be 30% cheaper, but also bigger and heavier. The problem here is the damn periodic table, someone should change it.

The photo choice is a big one that always bothers me with these articles.

Article photo.

Actual lab setup.
https://www.rsc.org/suppdata/d5/ta/d5ta05128b/d5ta05128b2.mp4

There actually is not a lot of room for improvement. Highest energy will still be limited to lithium chemistry because of the periodic table.

My very uneducated understanding is that sodium batteries can be produced virtually anywhere.

Not every battery application needs to maximize energy density, so sodium batteries are good where that is the case.

I also did not read about sodium ion batteries characteristics versus lithium ion, so there might also be other use cases where sodium ion batteries are better.

They are not going to get the sodium from desalination, they will mine it because it's cheaper.

Hilarious....all of these batteries are coming out of one country because only one country is doing serious R&D.

I prefer the media not mindlessly overhype scientific publications.

They also perform better in the cold making them a better choice for EVs in cold regions. This is why I think CATL saw the videos of cars getting killed by cold and pulled the trigger on retooling even with the lithium price crash.

That's a limit on gravimetric energy density. There are plenty of other parameters that can be improved.

Charge cycles tend to improve as technology and processes improve. Other sodium ion batteries started out similarly limited in cycles and have since basically matched lithium ion.

I need a shit ton of salt in winter for my road. But for how long?

Weird, I didn't know Lithium-Ion batteries were still in the lab. I thought for sure we were using those already. I thought the batteries in the labs were various solid-state batteries like graphene or like this sodium-ion battery, where there's been a rise in patents around it but not a lot delivered

No explanation? You might want to get checked for color blindness

Sodium Ion already does 5000+ cycles. Adding Vanadium is not a scalable material. It is very expensive. 400 cycles steady is not useful information because it needs to do much more. They didn't state a wh/kg density. This is probably not a viable research vector, but "big Vanadium" has proposed a rental model to make Vanadium more scarce for other applications. Flow batteries (a fuel cell with tanks of electrolytes) provides an ultra easy way of recycling/selling the vanadium for traditional uses. Battery rental that forces returning it could be viable.

There is a branch of battery research that is only focused on grid storage. It's the last piece to make solar and to a less extent wind unbeatably affordable.

In a home solar setup, batteries are the other half of the cost and have not fallen as fast as the cost of the panels themselves, the other half of the cost. For fully off grid setups, they quickly become the main cost.

No, that's why we use the same batteries Voltaire did on his frogs.

and more pure

What do they do with the Chlorine though?

What is the catch?

We've had 3 major changes in battery chemistry in the last 45 years. Energy density, lifespan, cost, and dangerous materials have all generally improved. We also have 2 new battery technologies in the process of becoming generally commercially available. Also, batteries went from 500 mAh batteries about the size of your smartphone to 3000 mAh as a minor component of that same smartphone, about an order of magnitude in energy density.

@Warl0k3@lemmy.world The hero we need!

Well, the downside of this not being a 4x game is that sometimes research doesn't pan out, and you don't know which ones until after you're done.

Every week with the "miracle battery!" headlines. This has been going on for ages and I'm sick of it.

If only they could build say...a 15W nuclear battery that can last 50 years, THAT would be something. Enough for a very low-power smartphone, one who's CPU is clocked down so that it can't drain energy too fast. And ruggedized as well.

There are a bunch of lithium ion chemistries that have come to market more recently.

LFP sits in the low cost marker while NCA is the highest performing of the mass market batteries, and NMC is somewhere in between.

Sodium might be coming for LFP's low cost position, and is already beginning mass production (some Chinese manufacturers expect those models to hit the road in a few months).

If you think rechargeable battery R&D from 10 years ago isn't making it into mass produced products today, you're just not paying attention.

We are close to finding out why some liquids are blue.

Clean chickens.

There are plenty of other parameters that can be improved.

You don't know that. This is chemistry, not Moore's stupid law.

Exactly, the desalination gimmick is bullshit for STEM ignorant hippies.

Voltaire was a French poet.

Alessandro Volta was the electrochemist.

JFC..what do they teach in schools any more?

LI-ion is pretty efficient compared to NA-ION.

at room temperature, but in the real world, where it gets cold, sodium batteries have an advantage.

gee..if only we could charge our smartphones. It's expensive throwing them in the river when the battery drains.

"coming in 2025"

Could the excess sodium used for carbon sequestration? Sodium bicarbonate is baking soda but I don't know what it could be used for aside from baking or if the energy to capture that carbon would even be a net positive.

The "progress" is typical industry bullshit. See the absolute bullshit around the Donut SS battery.

Remember when Musk invented a battery with 30% better capacity? It was a 30% bigger battery.

SS batteries require manufacturing facilities with clean rooms on the order of chip fabs. You may see these in 2027, but only in expensive cars.

The harder to obtain materials aspect, while long term relevant, is barely a factor right now. Lithium production has exploded and resulted in a massive drop in prices that's making the main consumer appeal for sodium batteries, price, a non-factor and driving some sodium battery producers out of business

Right up there with "cause/cure for dementia found"

The Institute of Sciencey Things

They run a pool service

Right up there with the batteries that would contain about 1 kg of silver in them. Even if they didn't become insanely expensive you'd have tweakers foaming at the mouth to steal your batteries.

"Dyslexia for cure found!"

Did you mean to tag me?

We found the cure for Alzheimer's but can't remember what it was. I think it began with a "c". Who are you?