Ehhhh, idk about that one, I’ve only heard it in alt-right social circles of high schoolers that I left long ago (I was never really part of the group, but they were the only people I knew). Everyone else I know would kill you if you called someone a “retard”

Yes, of course they stay, because there are stupid, lazy, crazy idiots. need words for them too.

Now then, you're only upset about this because you were programmed to be. Those people calling other aren't bad for calling someone stupid or lazy if they don't have free will.

If you assume free will doesn't exist, evil or good doesn't either. Murder or curing cancer, it's like the sun shining, and inavoidable, neutral fact. Of course you may dismiss this as rambling idiocy, but I won't hold it against a clockwork automaton.

Those people calling other aren’t bad for calling someone stupid or lazy if they don’t have free will.

You have grasped it.

If you assume free will doesn’t exist, evil or good doesn’t either.

Correct.

Murder or curing cancer, it’s like the sun shining, and inavoidable, neutral fact.

Correct.

Of course you may dismiss this as rambling idiocy, but I won’t hold it against a clockwork automaton.

No, you have grasped exactly what I said, at least on the level of the intellect. I realize of course you resist as it goes against what you merely WISH to be true. This I cannot do anything about, as you said. But you have understood perfectly. Well done!

Well, this conversation is really pointless then. Kind of embarrassing that the universe compelled you to post this drivel regarding a fight against nothing, but it can't be helped.

I wonder why you insist on a language of agency if it isn't what you believe.

Oh if only humanity did have an universally agreed upon meaning and point, so much strife could be avoided. Alas, such a thing does not exist in reality, but only in the minds of people. Those ever malleable and shifting minds.

I do as I do because because I am compelled, indeed! Because I wish to see less cruelty in the world. It is simplicity itself. And if I spoke in full truth, I would never say anything at all.

Hrm so I searched around that site a bit, and I genuinely cannot find them ever discussing that. Maybe it's in some of the videos (a very poor choice of design for something that supposedly is about more inclusive communication) but mostly it seems to be seminares and workshops.

But just to ask the general question, I still need to make a negative assessment, yes? I still say "worst", not "++ungood". So I would also call something "stupid", not "unsmart"?
Intuitively just from the title, of course nonviolent communication ought to be a thing, but that's distinct from a discussion as to whether all uses of a word should take in account all other uses of the same word, no? E.g. stupid person vs stupid move, or rape as a crime vs rape as a plant.

Could this comment then maybe affect the chain of your future thoughts, and result in you seeking a psychologist?

You suggest I see a psychologist, yet psychology confirms my point: we are the products of our neurobiology and our environments.

If you believe there is a part of the human mind that exists outside of cause and effect, I’d love to see the clinical study that located it.

Oh look another war on words, surely there is nothing else to focus attention on

I admit that website is annoying to navigate, and yes a lot of the content is as videos.

https://www.cnvc.org/learn/nvc-101 Perhaps this.

If you want to read, this covers roughly the same principles: https://pastebin.com/ZHhS044M

Banning words is not the point. As you said, a word can have many meanings. I am calling for understanding what you yourself want to communicate, and what you want to achieve with that communication. If you truly just want to insult people and that is the goal, then yes. It is indeed most effective to just throw a slur at them.

But if you wish to bring about some good (human well-being) in the world, perhaps learning how you can communicate to someone that their actions are harmful, without putting them on the defensive.

Also, if you wish to call someone stupid because they are behaving like a fool, you need to first understand what their goal was. Perhaps their goal was to be stupid all along, and as such, acting a fool achieves the goal - making their approach smart indeed. But, if someone wants to put out a fire and tries to do so by waving a fan at it, you may tell them that what they are doing is counterproductive.

If you have been hurt, and wish to communicate that to someone to bring about accountability, you can do this without insult too. You can point out the specific action they did, and express how it impacted you. If you tell them they are cruel, idiots, crazy, you can expect as much abuse to come back at you.

If one values the well-being of people, and if one has time and resources to be on Lemmy, I'd say reflecting upon one's conduct in the world is a fine place to put attention in.

If one values the well-being of people

Cruelty implies a choice. It doesn't exist in a world without free will. So you've succeeded, seeing the world is free of cruelty. What is next for you?

Cruelty is merely a label we put upon an action we find harmful. Like every word, it is made up.

No word is the thing it points to. Except perhaps the word, "word" itself. Every word I have written is a small lie.

One does not go around licking recipes in order to taste the dish.

Well, then use the words you mean. Cruelty was clearly an incorrect one. We can't exchange ideas effectively of you refuse to use words with their assigned meaning.

Please feel free to get familiar with semantics.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/semantics

Now if you have an actual argument for why free will exists, please do argue that. Else, I have said as much as needed.

I didn't ever claim free will existed. Just congratulated you on your success.

Now if you want a world free of strife, that's more of a task even in a pre-determined universe.

This thread certainly is full of interesting takes.

"People who get called stupid are just the result of the luck of the draw"

"REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE NOOOO I WANNA CALL PEOPLE STUPID HOW DARE YOU BAN WORDS PEOPLE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO BE ASSHOLES"

There is no point, you're correct. The problem is, these kind of rants remind me of my friends who either say they want therapy, or needed therapy (though that was probably more severe? Saying they'd be friends with murderers and all that, which is technically fine in right circumstances, but, who the hell talks like that?), or me on lonely, depressing nights.

We don't have free will. So what? Even if you're aware of this, that could make you appreciate the complexities life even more, but the whole thing comes off as pessimistic.

Since you mention lonely, depressing nights, I'll drop the act.

I actively worked to understand the things I wrote because that finally let me forgive myself for not being perfect. I'm the perfectly natural consequence of everything that ever happened, so I had no reason to beat myself up anymore. But of course, the requirement for that realization was to allow others the same grace.

You are exactly right that it made me appreciate the complexity much more. It was much easier to think there was some objective "good" (that I always failed to be), and it definitely was easier to think people I didn't like were "evil", instead of coming to the very sad understanding that I could be them if not for luck. But having that understanding doesn't lead me to depression, it leads me to write bizarre pompous manifestos on Lemmy for fun. And working in health and wellness industry, because I realized also that I'll never know what could happen, before it has happened (as there's a difference between determinism and fatalism).

I hope you don't have too many lonely and depressing nights. Probably my sentiment won't land but I mean it.

I haven't had them in a while to be fair, and it was mostly a sideffect of stress elsewhere, like high school.
I did however remember middle school, where after a near-death experience I coped for a while by bothering classmates with similiarly overly dramatic sentences like "You don't know death as I do", even if they weren't nearly as well thought out.
It may have ended up well, especially if all the philosophizing taught me to cope after that (we'll see), but clearly meeting a psychiatrist would've been safer.

Oh no, some stupidity is definitely a choice and deserves to be called out as such.

Also, I don't think insane is always used as scorn. Just a description.

Glad to hear you're doing better. And near death experience as a teen sounds like a lot, especially if you didn't get appropriate support after. But philosophizing isn't the worst thing you could've done, in fact please keep doing that. Crash Course to Philosophy is a nice and engaging starting point if you're interested.

If it is within your means, no reason to not go see a psychiatrist now if you feel there's something unresolved there. I realize that's a slightly privileged invitation these days though.

My snarky recommendation of a psychologist was rude itself, so it's fair. Though meeting those is way easier than a good psychiatrist from my and especially friends' experiences. I personally seem stable, thank you.

Noone calls anyone stupid, lazy or insane in an attempt to accurately describe them. They are all insults used on normal AND neurodivergent people or to describe "bad" behavior.

Also, occasionally I might make a stupid choice. And I know it is harder for me to make the right choice because of how my brain is wired, but it is still objectively the stupid choice and I knowingly show stupid behavior. Although I might have compassion for myself because of my neurodivergence, it doesn't change the fact that my behavior is stupid.

okay, idiot

Oh but there certainly are people who wield every one of those insults against another with the intent to describe the core of their being. The difference between calling someone stupid, and calling someone's action stupid is a vast one. I am glad you see it, but many do not.

Deviation from the norm of course is (afaik) the main driver of evolution. The chaotic approach. Trying out gene variations and sometimes stumbling upon a advantageous evolutionary trait. Is this about right?
Because of their diversity humankind was able to adapt to changing environmental conditions. Diversity is a survival trait of humankind.
At least it was for a long time. I am not sure how much this is true in the modern world

Stupidity is not neurodivergent.

It's neurotypical.