What does Vatican law say about robbing the Vatican bank? 🤔

I'm not so much defending religion as opposing your point of view that it's a marker of insanity. In fact, most things that bring people closer together as a cohesive community are positive, whether that's hobbies, interests or beliefs. Its only when it spills into doing harm to others that it becomes a problem (e.g. in certain aspects of sports, nationalism, and religion) but I still don't think it's a greater marker of ill mental health than a lot of other things we take for granted

Bread, wine, communion, annual religious festivities are also all real. Gods may not be real, but neither are a lot of human concepts. Good, evil, justice, aesthetics, mathematics, class, debt, trust, freedom... any number of things we believe exist but do not have any physical presence in the universe, no proof outside of human inference and intuition (and the occasional bit of paperwork) that they exist.
They all, however, have their uses, and their effects are made manifest by our actions, for good and ill.

"Those who dance are thought insane by those who cannot hear the music"

Then allow me to refine my point to specify organized religion's teachings. Sure, many develop a community, but they develop a community that specifically judges and ostracizes anyone not conforming to their extremely narrow belief system.

Most of organized religions leverage those negative aspects to further control their 'flock'. There are many aspects that are outright horrible for individuals, not the least of which is believing things for the simple fact that an authority said so.

I'm not against people building community. I am very against people building insular, hierarchical, tyrranical systems that brainwash people into foolish or down right horrible behavior.

The Jehovah's Witness are pretty bad for all that... as are Scientologists, a load of cults, Elan Schools, and arguably even the military and manosphere. Many of these don't necessarily bring religion into things.

Our shared objection is the human capacity for imposing power, subjugation and control of others. Where we differ is that Religion is any more a factor in that than anything else.

I'll grant you there's probably quasi-religious elements to more cults across history than not, mind. I guess its an easier path than most to abuse of power, if you can convince people and even more powerful entity is on your side

Every Christian and most any Islam sect is also guilty of building a highly judgmental and insanely insular "community", too.

Not in my experience. All the christians I've known over the last decade have been lovely, welcoming and open. They do have their in-groups too of course, and my interests are particularly bohemian so we don't socialise all that regularly, but honestly their religion only tends to come up if I ask about it. Otherwise they're just as content as anyone else to come and see a movie or go for a walk or whatever.

Some of the old biddies at the church I grew up with were pretty judgmental though, but they're all dead now. Everyone left is just... nice.

I only know Muslim parents through my kids school, because my kids best friend is Muslim, and the parents are perfectly happy with playdates with my secular kid. There are one or two cultural oddities - e.g. the mum won't come over our house unless my SO is also home (but will meet me in public) but I'm not sure if that's a Muslim thing or a Turkish thing.

Your experience is rare and you should cherish it, then.

I think you're probably mistaking the loudest christians for the majority. Easy mistake to make

Nope. I grew up a Christian. I know exactly how those 'nice' Christians think.

They might be nice to people they like and understand, but their ignorance is profound and troubling to anyone with an actusl broad understanding of the world.

If they're the sort of people I've seen on televangelist shows, then I take it all back. Those guys are terrifying

Yea, Kenneth Copeland is the closest to a demon walking this earth I can think of. and that is including the dictators and mass murderers... Dude's the perfect example of the subterfuge and corruption a demon as described in literature would bring to Christianity. An absolute corrupting force wearing the guise of good intentions.

Right. There's been more than a few bad eggs on that throne lately. Occasional hope, but then back to hate.

Vatican doesn't have public health care?

“Eat a dick” responded America, as they drove their gelatinous little tax-breaks to catecism so they could learn how to better hate the colored couple at the end of the street.