You keep access to non-verified apps no matter what Google wants since it uses microG.

It's openness vs security.

But also, why is everybody so offended by censored words here?

I think because it's a sign how social media corps have trained us to avoid certain words or even create new ones (for example "unalive" instead of "kill").

It only works on Pixel phones because they are the only phones on the market that meet the security requirments.

Thats why for the future Motorola phones, Motorola will have to design a new phone that will meet those requirements. They can't just put Graphene OS on an existing Motorola model.

Finally, Motorola produces a panoply of devices for LEA, if you think a for profit company will not leverage their deal with GOS to sell a bypass device to law enforcement agencies and have the monopoly on that market you are out of your goddamn mind.

You realise that Motorola Solutions (that make stuff for law enforcement agencies) and Motorola Mobility (that make phones) are two completely seperate companies?

Motorola Mobility is a wholly owned subsidiary of Lenovo.

They have nothing to do with eachother beyond just the brand. Motorola Mobility dont even own the rights to the name or logo. They have to license the brand from Motorola Solutions.

The Pixel phones were the only devices with secure enough hardware to make GrapheneOS viable, that's why they developed it for them.

It wasn't because of some deal with google or anything like that.

Are you a native french speaker? Maybe you heard it differently from me, but while I am all for nuance, lets not sanewash people and take them at their word.

I use plenty of software where the developers are not primarily focused on security, but his line of reasoning sounds just plain dangerous for an OS developer. Maybe he phrased it bad, but that would be up to him to clarify and we shouldnt do that for him.

The term is algospeak, where you change your wording due to online censoring. I fucking hate that corporations have managed to literally change the way we speak.

It's also up to us to not jump aboard any given claim and be critical of what others are spelling out for us. In any case, the transcripts in both english and french were posted by grapheneOS in the comments as well, so non-native french speakers can draw their own conclusions.

You're right that it's also up to him to clarify his remarks, but I feel like this is a non-issue generously stretched out online that just sows further division that only benefits the big offenders against privacy.

I can see how one can interpret it like that, but it's not how I read what he said. I think the point he's trying to make is that hardened security protects the user from attacks, yes, but their focus is to provide services that can be trusted not to attack the user. He said: "really hardened security stuff that could clearly be useful for executives, in the secret service, or whatever. That's not our goal"

I mean, I use GrapheneOS on my phone, but do I personally need all the hardened security? Not really. It's nice theoretically, but mainly I'm just happy the OS itself isn't spying on me. I'm personally not very worried about an evil maid attack or state level spying.

I've not seen this though GrapheneOS has repeatedly belittled /e/os. As others in this thread have noted the propensity to repeatedly attack other projects is the biggest failing of GOS. As a user it does little more than leave me funding PostmarketOS while biding time for a proper linux solution.

GrapheneOS only points out (very bluntly tbf) the fact that /e/os and other "privacy" focused os don't keep up with critical security patches and actually makes users less private and secure due to this. I think saying that GrapheneOS belittled /e/os is a little much considering the amount of missinformation/attacks that people from /e/os and Murena have been doing accross social media. I mean you see it here calling "hardened security approach" is for pedos/criminals very extreme language which does genuine harm to projects like GrapheneOS. Their Unified Attestation project is just a way for them (/e/os, murena etc) to control which apps can run on which device when GrapheneOS supports hardware attestation which would allow (afaik) apps to verify on the hardware level to ensure the security of apps. Read this thread on their mastodon, they routinely have to defend themselves on social media from a mountain of misinformation and disinformation you should read some of the other posts on their mastodon.

That's how it sounds. So, I'm a pedophile because I run GrapheneOS on my phone? I guess I better tell my wife, and my kids.

... and my kids

"Hey Kiddos! So I have some good news and some bad news..."

Calling others on their bullshit does not equal hating on them. Why do you think CalyxOS had to 'take a break'? Why do you think that The only thing these 'privacy' focused OSs can do about GrapheneOS is say it's geared towards criminals? They have no other way to try and smear them because they're all garbage in comparison.

Get your shit straight. GrapheneOS is so fucking awesome that they plugged an actual Linux kernel hole within hours of it being found, whereas it took Google weeks, never mind these Murena and Calyx morons.

... bullshit ... criminals ... smear ... garbage ... get your shit straight ... morons.

more expletives, than sentences; this reads like it was written by micay himself. lol

Considering I've had my own posts deleted during the last round of admin meltdowns here on the fediverse I have seen all I need to of GOS's leadership antics, thank you very much.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is more that one sockpuppet to be quite honest, they just cannot grow tf up.

You're finally getting it. Good.

which instances did that?

i'm inclined to believe that the continuous barrage of hate lobbied their way makes them reactionary because they lack the discipline that typifies rightist beliefts; they could accomplish A LOT MORE if they copied pages from the leftist playbooks where public engagement is concerned.

But also, why is everybody so offended by censored words here? I don’t get it.

The biggest reason seems to be that it will evade filters, which people set up very intentionally and specifically to keep these Fedi-spaces a safe place for them mentally.

So, for example, someone comes here to get away from the 'real world' and news and whatnot, may have a filter that blocks anything with the word "Trump", or one I actually see censored a lot more often, "Israel"

Then someone makes a post about "Isr*el is so bad" and it sails right through their filters.

Hardware security guarantees are irrelevant for most people, including myself. A very small segment of the popularion needs them.

What matters infinitely more is who has access to your data. And Google is one of the worst offenders.

https://lemmy.ml/post/45526027/24995083

But it's also great that humans evolve language to keep ahead of algorithms and corporate bullshit.

I'm running e/OS in my old Poco F3 right now.

I switched from LineageOS because I though, e/OS would be easier to ungoogle.

In the end, it just defaults to way more compromises than I would have made on LineageOS.

Over all, it's actually just LineageOS with MicroG preinstalled, a really bad launcher, an ugly 2015-ish iPhone icon theme, and a few mediocre apps preinstalled, that use these 'Murena' services that claim to be an alternative to Google services, but they are neither more secure/foss nor reliable.

Their appstore is rather Bad. Yes, it essentially combines something like APKMirror and F-Droid in one app, but it requests a Google account to access PlayStore Apps.

Imho, LineageOS with MicroG, no GApps, F-Droid and APKMirror and a few foss apps is the better solution.

I have my sync services selfhosted through a NAS and simply use WebDAV (backups), CardDAV and CalDAV. This was harder to set up in e/OS than in basic LineageOS, because e/OS is trying to push their own Murena services for that.
And if I didn't have all of these selfhosted, I'd rather use Proton services instead of Murena.

Over all, really sketchy. It's like a custom Rom that claims privacy but actually just wants you to möge to their own service.

Sadly FUD as ANYTHING that is NOT increasing profit for surveillance capitalism, i.e Google, Meta, etc is a win for privacy!

Of course /e/OS could be better, GrapheneOS could also be better (including on security) but the big picture is that still ANY of those solutions is making surveillance capitalism, the loss of privacy for profit and power, less efficient. That's good for all of us who, being on Lemmy or other federated instance, believe we do benefit from having more privacy, or at least not trading it away.

TL;DR: be inclusive, bring others up, don't be exclusive aiming for perfection none of us can attain.

If you don't care about hardware security then don't use Graphene OS, it's not made for you. Its made for people who do care.

As for Google harvesting data, Graphene has all of that stripped out by default. It doesnt even have Google Play Services, you need to install it seperately if you want to use it.

grapheneos@lemmy.ml
https://a.lemmy.world/lemmy.world/comment/21010858
I spoke out about the persecution complex of the management and got shut down, like-minded sentiment be damned I guess. We can see the sycophancy here also, Stallman save us from such small minds..

Anyone telling you the list isn’t graphene -> ios -> good custom android -> aosp-> google stock -> samsung stock is lying to you.

It shows that people internalize censorship and start doing it unprompted.

"Why did you lock your doors, what did you steal?"

Buying a phone from Google (HTC really) does not give Google access to your data.

There are no Google services installed by Graphene, you have the option of running Google services if you choose, but even if you choose to do so they are kept in a sandbox and not given privileged information on the system.

I don't really see the issue. So you don't really care about robust and trustworthy hardware. That I get to some extent considering you're more worried about your data itself. But if you're flashing your device with GOS, there is no data being shared to Google unless you specifically want to use Google Play Services or the Play Store. Both of which don't come pre-installed

Edit: I added the if

the mod's reasoning is sus at best and makes this community feel like it's captured by reactionaries.

In that case another degoogled ROM sounds more like what you're after?

Graphenes thing is hardware security.

I thought Samsung stock was better because of Knox et all

Well, that'll be another 100€ December donation to GrapheneOS.

Years ago as I started research I literally laughed at loud at the thought of buying a google phone to.... Degoogle!

Talk about an instant compromise of values! Haha!

Then I saw the toxicity of the GOS devs & their fanz & that sealed the deal

Best decision ever to run away from that group of nasties

Ahhhhhh, the zen life

There are no Google services installed by Graphene, you have the option of running Google services if you choose, but even if you choose to do so they are kept in a sandbox and not given privileged information on the system.

Using Google hardware results in financial gain for Google, which is one of the worst companies out there for privacy and security. I do not like that GrapheneOS is working to propagate Google's monopoly.

Robust and trustworthy hardware does not matter if the apps you need for daily life (like banking or public transportation) are so integrated with Google's ecosystem that they leak everything.

Breaking Google's hold over Android is the most important security topic of all time. Everything else is secondary. GrapheneOS is not real security.

Incredibly weak response

How is iOS - a proprietary OS owned by a big tech company - second in your list?

This is a different OS isnt it? E and G are different and theynare pointing out that being security conscious doesnt make you a criminal

The linked bsky thread is by GOS, citing /e/.

But how does this tie back to your original statement about GOS security and tying itself with Google? The issues you're raising aren't even a GOS specific one. I also find it strange to not call it secure because services themselves are reliant on Google's services. That is not an issue any OS can solve. I say this as someone who does not rely on any Google services on my phone. I also believe you might be conflating security with privacy.

some people in this thread still dont get it, so:

you cant expect privacy while also having poor security practices. ideally you'd have both and most of these privacy projects are not much more than just a lineage fork with a dns blocker

apparently in duval's mind, you can always trust even a fascist government to never try to exploit your phone and to give you privacy. or something idk

You're moving the goalposts, you said:

What matters infinitely more is who has access to your data. And Google is one of the worst offenders.

That's completely different than who benefits financially from your phone purchase.