I can feel this and it’s making me squirm. TIHI.

This is painful to look at. I would start to fix it by braiding the strings together.

Not a problem.

If you approached me with this thing I’d bite off your fingers.

I would literally kill someone if they tried to force me to wear that, or die trying.

EDIT:

Alternatively: destroy it.

I usually have a pocket knife and zippo within 50 feet of me.

No, I describe myself as an autist all the time.

I am an autistic. I am an autist.

Its a word that describes what I am.

If you get bad vibes from it, you may have some insecurities you need to handle.

Aspergers has basically been rolled into Autism Spectrum Disorder, as of the DSM V.

More technically, its a more specific sort of set of behaviors/mannerisms/ways of thinking and acting, but, they all fall into the new category of ASD.

ASD is... a spectrum, of things that are different from the norm, Aspergers is basically a subset within that set, though many other subsets are possible and exist, in different instensities.

You monster.

Its annoying to normies.

It causes more or less significant to extreme mental and physical anguish to many autists.

Many autists have basically heightened levels of awareness with one or many of their physical senses, as compared to non autists.

Like, I frequently notice minor visual details in the world around me, that most other people completely miss, tell me I'm lying when I say I saw them, then they go check and are angry that I was right.

Same thing with heightened sensitivity to bright light, as well as extreme repulsion from certain color palettes.

Or, same kind of thing with sounds. Myself, a lot of other autistic people get extremely irritated by low intensity, but perisistent sounds that are either very high or very low frequency ... that most people don't notice untill you tell them to stop and focus, then, they can hear them.

But for autists it is... sometimes literally so annoying it will drive you mad. It causes actual pain from how stressed it makes you.

Its why autists and noise canceling headphones are a thing.

Most 'ASMR' videos?

I'd rather run into brick wall at 20 mph.

ASMR is a thing, but, as a genre of content, its largely a bunch of idiots making the most annoying and aggravating sounds possible, and acting like its soothing.

tl:dr; yeah, its not an autistic only thing, but something like this is fucking kryptonite to autists.

Autist here:

I either buy shirts that don't have them, or use a seam ripper to take them off, when I get them.

Yeah, they're so annoying that I have a whole pre-planned way of handling this, lol.

Sometimes... somtimes, the tag will be made of a kind of fabric that is actually very soft, not scratchy, not pokey. This is very rare in my experience, but I have had a few bits of clothes like that.

Yep.

And while > 4000% is hyperbolic, a whole lot of normies just refuse to entertain the notion that you're being serious, not hysterical, that this kind of thing is actually fairly well studied.

Its like guys just telling gals 'its just a period, how bad can it be?' or gals telling guys 'its just a flu, how bad can it be?'

Yeah, hard to quantify precisely, along some universal scale... but that is because there is no universal scale; different kinds of people experience different levels of measurable agony from different things.

I have sound sensitivity as well, but actually love asmr when it's done correctly. But you're right, the majority of it is garbage.

Thanks! I was curious because I have other traits that have been labelled as neurodivergent by my therapists but I'm not diagnosed or anything so I never know if something is "normal" or not.

I disagree (it necessarily being hyperbolic), by now it's been proven we can have "real" physical pain (and thereby also damage). Maybe the number sounds exaggerated but we don't know.

Say it was Black instead. Can you not see how describing someone as “a black” could be dehumanising?

I am autistic. I am an autist.

I am schizophrenic. I am a schizoid.

I have Down’s Syndrome. I am a Down’s.

Or just disability in general.

I am blind. I am a blindist.

I am deaf. I am a deafist.

Or even just other self-describing words.

I am old. I am an oldist.

I am tall. I am a tallist.

I have zero insecurities about being autistic. I also dislike coy phrases like “on the spectrum”, which have the implication that there’s something wrong with saying that someone is autistic. Like it’s something to be ashamed of. It’s fine. I am autistic. You can say I’m autistic. That’s cool.

But that doesn’t mean that I should accept a term just because that’s what 4chan, WallStreetBets, and Gab popularised by using to put us down either by using it ironically or just by straight-up using it as an insult. You can make an argument for reclamation, perhaps, but I don’t think we’re there.

And, and perhaps this is just me, but isn’t it a horrible word? Phonetically?

As I’ve said, there seems to be no consensus in the autism community and one dividing line appears to be America vs. the UK

"This is an American."

You don't need to accept a term you don't like for yourself but others may not mind.

Btw, autistic brains exist outside the UK and the US. In German, it's becoming more common to say "Menschen mit Autismus" (people with autism) but I suspect that's actually more to do with an effort to de-gender because constructions like "Autistinnen und Autisten" (female autists and male autists) are clunky.

Also, your "blindist" and "deafist" don't exist in English which is why they sound weird, they do exist in German.

I'm not sure I've ever seen Autist used as an insult on Wallstreetbets, it's usually people referring to themselves as autists.

Cinnamon! CINNAMON!

I'm amazed at the reaction here, I'm not sure the last time I even noticed one of these while wearing a shirt.

The “American” one would suggest “an autistic”, rather than “an autist”, no? He is American, he is an American.

You don't need to accept a term you don't like for yourself but others may not mind

I’ve said repeatedly that this isn’t a settled debate within the autism community, and at no point have I suggested that other people aren’t free to use whatever terms they want

Btw, autistic brains exist outside the UK and the US

I understand that. I’m specifically talking about the English word “autist”. Ich rede nicht über Deutsch.

Also, your "blindist" and "deafist" don't exist in English which is why they sound weird

I suppose that asks the question why is “autistic” one of (if not the) only example with a dedicated noun?

Yes, that’s the irony. It’s allistic people calling themselves “autists” because they have a strong interest in something and act in stupid ways

To illustrate how it’s used there, you only need to look at the terms that it’s interchangable with: “idiots”, “smooth-brained”, and the r-word. This is not an example of positive representation

You can make an argument for reclamation, perhaps, but I don’t think we’re there.

I am there.

That is exactly what I am doing.

Yep, autists are in fact different from other people, here I am, let me tell you and show you what's real and what is a harmful, false stereotype, or a common misunderstanding.

I'm also bi, queer.

Pretty sure the term queer had to be reclaimed, just like fag/faggot did, and was.

Autism and/or autists have for decades now suffered massively from being described and defined and represented in media by non-autists who perpetuate many extremely offensive and innacurate caricatures and misunderstsndings of autism.

It rarely occurs to a non autistic person to just actually ask an autistic person 'hey, what is it like to be autistic?'

We have tons of examples of 'autistic coded' characters in media being actually more accurate depictions of autism... than of characters that are explicitly stated to be autistic.

We have tons of even academics and psychologists/therapists that have basicslly only a surface level/caricature understanding of autism, you basically have to specialize in it, or just actually be autistic yourself to understand it better.

We have to represent ourselves, or we will continue to be misrepresented and misunderstood.

Anyway, as to the linguistics of ending a word with -ist seeming awkward to you...

Economist. Scientist. Artist. Martial Artist. Dentist. Journalist. Pianist. Pharmacist. Biologist. Dendochronologist. Archaelogist. Anthropologist.

Tourist. Cyclist. Motorcyclist.

Capitalist. Marxist. Anarchist. Pacifist. Environmentalist.

Optimist. Pessimist. Nilhist. Absurdist.

You're categorizing Autist as a word that indicates disability.

I'm categorizing it as a word that indicates common activities, knowledge sets, capabilities, skill sets, thought patterns, ways of thinking.

Autism is not a disability, to me.

Its a different way of existing, of being, one that is inherently not alterable.

We can mask, we can try to pretend to be 'normal', we can even sometimes get pretty good at it, but it causes massive mental and physical overload and can lead to autistic burnout.

Or... we can just be ourselves and be more or less fine, if other people approach the concept of an autistic person more accurately, more realistically, with more humility than pre-baked stereotypes.

Exactly.

People assume its an insult, because they assume someone calling themself or another an autist... is deragatory.

Which only makes sense if you presume that it is bad to be autistic or an autist.

... Many autists do not see it this way.

They are offended by the idea that somebody would think it is an insult, though.

"Bro, what are you, gay?"

"Yes."

That's the kind of 'energy' or 'vibes' going on there.

By hyperbolic I mean that 4000% is likely not the actually correct specific number, but that it is a much higher number, just maybe not 4000%.

Maybe its more like 12 or 13 or 18, compared to 10.

Basically I am trying to agree with you and say that yes, it is substantially worse, but maybe not literally 4000% worse.

If 100 is 100%, 4000% would be 4000.

Anyway, as to the linguistics of ending a word with -ist seeming awkward to you...

All the words you cited describe what people do or believe. Not what people are

Autism is not a disability, to me

I think it clearly is

There’s a saying “everybody has different abilities and needs, but ‘disability’ is a product of society”. You yourself list some of the struggles that we face. And these struggles more often than not have consequences beyond what you list - lack of employment, isolation, barriers to healthcare. Hell, our lifespans are shorter on average than allistic people. 5-10 years without any mental health comorbidities, and up to 20+ in people with comorbidities

All from existing in a society which is built around other people’s needs and which doesn’t account for ours

I don’t see how it can even be a question. And I say that as someone who firmly believes that if the stats were reversed and we made up 98-99% of the population and allistic people made up 1-2% of the population they would be the ones considered disabled because society would actually be built around us

And let’s not start shrugging off the term “disability” as if that itself is something to be shunned or ashamed of. There’s enough stigma around disability - particularly mental disability - without having it also come from inside the house

Yeah!

Real, actual ASMR is very neat, when done properly...

... but, these days, its mostly idiots that have warped it from an actual, specific, biophysical effect, into a massively bastardized basicslly just flavor of slop content.

And also... yeah, at least in the US, its very difficult to find a therapist that knows much about autism, its even more difficult to get a diagnosis if you sre an adult.

https://raads-rtest.org/

Take that, take the results of it to your therapist.

Chances are, that'll be the first time they've even heard of this, despite it being pretty well established in the field... because most US therapists don't know that much about autism. You have to find, and be able to afford, someone with specific training.

All the words you cited describe what people do or believe. Not what people are.

... I do not the mental bandwidth to attempt to fully delve into the level of linguistic/philosophical implications of you drawing that as a dividing line.

Its an element of one's identity.

Many people very much would say they are what they do, be it professionally, or in their free time.

I love food, I'm a foodie, I'm a gardener, I like to tend to gardens, I believe in Jesus, I am a Christian, etc.

... As to the 'disability is when society treats you differently' line of thinking...

Ok, then being poor, or a minority ethnicity is a disability. So is being a child of a single parent, so is not having access to adequate education.

My understanding of disability is I guess much more directly related to the human body, of which the mind, being essentially an ongoing activity performed by the brain, an element of the body, is a part.

I would consider a person with dyslexia to have a mental disability, because there are basically only detrimental effects to one's ability to perform a common mental task.

I would consider having only one fully functional leg to be a disability, as it significantly impedes many otherwise common tasks, not too many direct upsides to that.

Autism?

Autism is unironically my superpower.

I am very skilled at complex data analysis, I notice details others miss, I tend to be much more objective and blunt by default, which is very beneficial when dealing with data and systems, but I also notice tons of microexpressions and tonality variations that make it possible for me to be extremely empathetic, when I'm not too exhausted by the mental energy I need to expend to do that.

I can think systemically and specifically in a greater capacity and with greater ease than most non autists I've met. As such, I can write code, design mechanical things.

I can plan out beneficial routines and strategies for many socioeconomic scenarios, I have a comparatively heightened sense of my own explicit train of thought that allows me to know when I am getting emotionally disregulated to the point that I need to take a break and calm down, avoid burnout.

... My point here with all this is that I view Autism as more of ... well, what it literally is, a different paradigm by which a brain and mind operate.

And many of these things do grant abilities and propensities that are directly beneficial to many parts of just being a human doing human stuff, as well as being a person in a society.

Yes, Autism also comes with many drawbacks, compared to the baseline neurotypical.

But this is how I see it, why I don't see it as a disability in the same way you do.

Basically, I see it as a kind of different character build, or class, in an RPG.

Drawbacks in some areas, balanced out by aptitude in others.

Yeah, it may net out to generally being not overall positive, for the aggregate of people who are autistic.

But its not the same thing as a 'disability', which to me, is basically just a clear detriment, with no upsides.

Here's maybe a thought experiment:

Say that somehow, a human is born with tetrachromatic vision, can see colors other people can't, but also, is overwhelmed by many common visual scenarios that don't bother most people at all.

... Is this a disability?

Or a superpower?

... Or is it a different kind of being different?

Allow me to provide a thought-experiment illustration of what I mean by disability being a product of society.

There are three workspaces.

The first is on the 14th floor. There are no ramps and no lifts. All doors are operated via keycard above head height. All areas, work and rest, have rows of desks and chairs, all as one unit like in a fast food place or a picnic table.

The second is on the ground floor. All doors are operated by keycard at waist height. All areas, work and rest, have large adjustable desks, movable chairs, and plenty of space.

The third is a multi-storey office. All stories are connected only by ramps which are designed to allow fast descent of wheeled appliances and have an in-built braking mechanism at the bottom. The up ramps have a “stair-lift”-type mechanism designed for the smooth movement of wheeled appliances. All ceilings are at shoulder-height. There are no chairs at all.

I think it’s trivial to see how wheelchair uses would be at a disadvantage in the first environment, wheelchair users and non-wheelchair users would be equal in the second, and non-wheelchair users would be at a disadvantage in the third

In each scenario, wheelchair users and non-wheelchair users have different abilities and needs, but which one of them would be “disabled” is a product of that environment

I would consider a person with dyslexia to have a mental disability, because there are basically only detrimental effects to one's ability to perform a common mental task.

The irony here is that dyslexia advocates use the exact same “superpower” language as you. In fact, there is an emerging school of thought in psychiatry and psychology that autism, dyslexia, ADHD, and OCD may all be differing presentations of the same underlying condition, in the same way that autism and Asperger’s used to be considered different conditions

But let’s look at a different disability, for the sake of clarity. You yourself have spoken about deaf pride. Ask yourself this - would the kind of deaf person who would shun someone for getting a cochlear implant take kindly to you characterising deafness as only having a downside?

I think a lot of disability advocates would take issue with your characterisation of disability

It’s regressive, stigmatising, and potentially harmful given that it can discourage those who need help from asking for help, and often the only way to get help is through disability services - and legislation. The reason why it’s illegal for employers in the UK not to provide accommodations for autistic people is because of its classification as a disability under the Equalities Act of 2010

Besides, you seem to be doing something that’s depressingly common amongst autistic people - of treating autism as if it’s just level 1 autism, while dismissing and ignoring those who have greater needs. Some people need 24/7 care because of the way their autism manifests. These people count. They are just as much “one of us” as you or me

Also, BTW, tetrachromats exist

So I'm a little lost. Are those supposed to be empty wrappers or containers of something?

Anything specific, or just vague plastic aluminum-y things? I'm just so confused here. I get the sensory part, but based on the reactions here is gotta be something more specific.

Edit-

10 seconds later I realized those are clothes tags. They looked like little tubes of some kinda product. Like an ointment maybe.

You got it - clothing tags and random itchy threads.

I didn't even notice the threads.

Now I'm really uncomfy, thanks.

Apologies, I'm not natively English so that might pose language and cultural understanding issues (additionally) 😁

Erm, late for me to learn but if so: shaking is a symptom from having to eat?

It's a consequence of low blood sugar. Although there are other possible causes.

Btw, a simple alarm on the phone helps me remember when it's time for a meal in my whack schedule.

Hm, maybe I should keep some dextrose on me then.

I geneuinely do not understand the points you're making.

In a world of all autists, no autist is disabled. That's the third floor of your wheelchair analogy.

But... they would all still be autists.

Whereas in a world that I guess is managed by humanoid, ambulatory scifi robots that do all construction, to physically create and maintain wheelchair world...

The wheelchair folks are still disabled, they need the help of physically capable beings or things to exist in and maintain society.

... That is not the case for autism world.

Really what is the point you are driving at here?

Do what I just exampled right there, that's how you determine disability vs something else.

Dyslexic world could probably function differently, but overall, basically fine. They'd probably invent different forms of communication and symbolic langauge that work better for them.

Deaf world?

Could work, depending on what level of technological/socilogical development you choose as your starting point.

But if you pick an technologically/sociologically early point, well, lots of predators and threats make noises.

You're probably not going to find too many wheelchair bound people arguing that no, actually, an entire human society and civilization could arise and do just fine without the use of their legs.

To a great extent, I see what you are driving at, I suppose I am just trying to say that 'disability' is a hard thing to try to nail down with a very precise meaning.

Could we perhaps both agree that 'disability' requires considerstion from both the sociological and more direct, autonomy impacting viewpoints?

It also does seem to very much carry different connotations in the US vs UK.

You have clearly put a lot of thought into this, the vast majority of people I encounter are US, who are much more likely to simply view the term Autist as inherently an insult.

So, I apologize for the earlier snipe at you.

I assumed, and became an ass.

As to the level 1 vs other levels of Autism thing...

I've read a good deal of research pointing toward significantly different chemical and neuorological activity in the brain, where those with 'severe' (catatonic) autism... well, they can and have actually been treated for this.

Whereas those with level 1, non catatonic autism... no measurable effect, for that same treatment.

And, there are substantially different propoderances of various genetic markers beteeen those two groups as well, enough to be able to well predict 'severity' of autism with it.

So, no, actually, I am inclined to believe those are closer to two different things that have untill recently been thought of as different kinds of the same thing.

Again, I favor a very literal, materialistic and mechanical approach to all this, as opposed to the primarily psychological way of just trying to describe behaviors/symptoms and then just making up wild hypotheses based on clustering and distinctifying those, in some arbitrary hypothetical framework, that is then almost always shown to be significantly flawed or within the next 20ish years.

In fact, I would hazard to guess that you're an autistic woman, based on your dispreference for thinking of people fundamentally as mechanisms with feelings.

(Well that and 'SaraTonin')

This is a fairly well established beavior/mental difference between autistic men and women.

In fact, if you lived in the US, and are a woman, chances are you'd never have even been diagnosed as autistic, unless you came from a quite wealthy family.

You'd have just been 'gifted', erudite, bookish, something like that.

Our healthcare systems and cultures are very much not on par, we suck ass at even realizing autistic women can exist.

I'm not even formally diagnosed myself.

I got referred to a formal adult autist diagnoser years ago, after literal decades of teams of therapists giving me all kinds of random diagnoses.

But, then, my family decided that I was hallucinating my referral to an adult autism specialist, despite me showing them the paperwork.

Long story short, I then became homeless, barely survived that. Last time I talked to a doctor, a GP, general doctor, far, far away from the adult autism specialist with a literal multi year waitlist...

... They said that realistically, pursuing a formal diagnosis would just be a waste of time and effort on my part, given the state of the US healthcare system.

So yeah, there are some 'cultural' differences at play here.

I didn't know human tetrachromats actually existed.

That is very intriguing!

I'd only heard of certain people, very rarely, essentially developing a kind of shifted or altered perception of color after some kind of eye or brain or neurological injury or surgery.

Ah, all good!

You speak English better than most Americans, if that's any consolation, hahah!

Coughing can't possibly be a symptom of any illness because I sometimes cough without being sick.

My T-shirts all have the tag at the bottom of the left seam.

because most US therapists don’t know that much about autism.

Fun fact - many textbooks still say girls can’t be autistic. I tutor psychology occasionally and I’ve seen it more than once.

Not even autistic and I already fear it.

I hope the clasp at the back snags at the hair on the nape of my neck as well

The “American” one would suggest “an autistic”, rather than “an autist”, no? He is American, he is an American.

This may be an issue with English not differentiating precisely between most nouns and adjectives relating to countries. In my head "an American" is clearly a noun but that might be me. Better examples might be "a New Yorker" or "a Londoner".

I’ve said repeatedly that this isn’t a settled debate within the autism community, and at no point have I suggested that other people aren’t free to use whatever terms they want

You did say you don't want to accept a term just because it's popular and I was agreeing to that. The fact that we're talking about this seemed to suggest to me that you felt at least some pressure to conform to what everybody else is saying.

I understand that. I’m specifically talking about the English word “autist”. Ich rede nicht über Deutsch.

And I was drawing parallels between two very closely related languages of two closely related cultures. The words "autist" and "Autist/Autistin" are obviously related so it's interesting to see if there's differences in how they're used and what they are.

I suppose that asks the question why is “autistic” one of (if not the) only example with a dedicated noun?

Language is under no obligation to be consistent and logical. Speakers of English for some reason didn't see need for dedicated nouns here and they dropped out of use (or never developed in the first place). Why English doesn't have a word for "doch" is beyond me but here we are. English also doesn't have dedicated nouns for "person from [country]", as we established above. Does that mean anything profound in particular? To my mind it suggests simply that English somehow tends to prefer adjectives.

Wow.

I knew it was bad, didn't know it was that bad.

Thanks, I found out that was the case whan I played mmorpg and assumed some bad English speakers were not native speaking, but they were. Interesting thing in fact.

Still, some things are lost with specific wording or also culturally - worst of all are the things that seem identical but are different (not the average false friends stuff).

The wheelchair folks are still disabled, they need the help of physically capable beings or things to exist in and maintain society

…what? You think it’s literally impossible for wheelchair users to function to the point that a society created by and for wheelchair users would collapse without non-wheelchair users to look after them?

As for the rest of it, while I certainly believe that self-diagnosis is valid (and, indeed, there is a phrase “all diagnosis is self-diagnosis”), it’s also the case that even people with diagnoses often suffer from imposter syndrome. So what I will say is that if you keep encountering people who find your views on disability and terminology to be wrong-headed, as it seems you do, then it may be to your benefit to approach such conversations with a little more openness and a little more listening to what the rest of us have to say

The fact that we're talking about this seemed to suggest to me that you felt at least some pressure to conform to what everybody else is saying.

No, not at all. There is no pressure I’ve encountered to use the term “autist”, and if I did feel pressure to conform on this subject I wouldn’t have continued to discuss it after my initial post was downvoted

It’s interesting to me that people like you exist (even though I’m assuming you’re in the vast majority). It’s like how it sounds made up to me that there are these supposed “extroverts” that gain energy from talking to people.

Nah, I'm just diabetic.

Oh wait, I go to the doctor for that...

It also helps to check for signs of pre-diabetes, as afaiu healthy people don't get this issue. I didn't start getting the shakes until I gotten fat and unexercised.