It's also the word to describe Hilary Clinton's baby eating

What is it about then?

Don't be discouraged. Personally I don't have the energy any more to endure the abuse of the mob (these "leftist" ignoramuses whose obsession with "Zionism" leads them to support literal fascism) but it's important that somebody makes the points you're making.

You might be a little biased.

Hamas is based and defending Palestine against genocidal Nazis.

Is your name Lenin Weave after the way you dodge criticism?

• it means a minority can pass a rule without it being even seen by the majority

Why do you think that?

As much as I hate to agree with Tankies, I think their point was that a more surgical method could have prevented things from boiling over into a world war.

Which is why db0 defederated from the Zionazi echo chamber.

What would be the point of federating with an instance which simply bans anti-Zionism? There is no way to convince feddit users since their mods enforce the German Zionist viewpoint.

Classical Lemmy.ml comment

Sorry, what was that? I can't hear you when you're all the way over in defederation.

I don't agree on that claim, no.

You are reducing both sides to an extreme and extracting a single quote from both of them - "corporate media is lying to you to protect politicians preying on children" . You understand that one side is right and the other isn't - where do you think the difference appears? Certainly not at the extreme surface level of a single quote you are picking.

All sides in WW2 were killing people, I literally can't tell the difference!

I never said those were equal statements

The statement is that far left makes similarly culty statements like "X entity is hiding evidence that supports our views from the general public". It's the "everyone except us lies" part of the culty belief. My statement is that both far left and far right have fringe beliefs that are culty or close to it.

What is that?

It is true though

Again, only because you are picking a very reductive surface level quote.

"People are lying to you, believe us" isn't culty. You are also twisting words, because "we alone tell you the truth" is not part of the discourse you are comparing to QAnon.

I don't believe the horseshoe theory. Far left and far right have a number of stark differences such as religion, economic policy, etc. I just believe that both sides are fringe cult-like environments, particularly when it comes to isolating yourselves and ideology control. Occasionally, I see other similarities.

Imo, far left isn't clearly closer to the far right in most beliefs, except cult-like behavior

piefed.social keeps a hidden trust score that goes down when people do stuff the piefed dev personally doesn't like. there was recently a bunch of drama about it

"cult like behaviour"

This doesn't make sense beyond the most cursory vibes based consideration.

Sure. But I'm not going to write an essay to back my position right now with numerous examples.

I respect many of the far lefts beliefs like economic policy, pressure against the right wing, social policies supporting poor. I don't respect the extreme distrust of media, violent retoric (when I see it), ideological purism, because it comes off as culty

Should note that I see less violent retoric from the far left than the far right, hence "when I see it"

Just ban everything and everyone you don’t agree with.

They were specific about what they didn't agree with: Authoritarianism.

And if they don't want to tolerate guests from an instance that allows Zionism, then good. Any feddit.org members who think their admins' permissiveness is tolerable are complicit in the promotion of Zionism, even if they aren't intentionally complicit. Yes, hanging around with pro-genocide people should earn punishment, such as ostracization until they stop hanging around pro-genocide people. It's a social media account on the Fediverse, switching isn't difficult.

We did the same thing to Wolfballs, until their admin closed the instance because it was filled with literal neo-Nazis calling the admin a 'race-traitor'. Tolerating every belief is utopian, pointless and self-destructive.

Jesus fuck.

They fully support the Russian invasion

wut? Even lemmygrad.ml doesn't - their support of the Russian Federation's invasion has always been critical, not full. Just like their support for Hamas is critical - it's extremely obvious that neither the capitalist-run RF nor the Islamist Hamas are groups they agree with at all.

(I am not a campist, I'm simply explaining the campist concept of critical support)

Zionism is, and has always been since the modern movement started in the 19th century, intrinsically antisemitic.

That's not what I said that in response to. This doesn't mean I oppose resistance to genocide, this means I have expectations towards resistance groups. Not the same position. Opposing the form doesn't mean I oppose the concept.

I'm not going to pull up the comment history of any .ml dumbass tankies I've argued with.

I've never argued with a db0 user, but it's often pretty clear reading other arguments when they get flustered and start slipping up

My proof is this app.

That's literally the best and fairest way to deal with that kind of stuff here. No risky permissivity, no manhunts / withchunts, no putting the onus on other people. db0 as an instance is weird for a lot of thigs, but honestly, compared to the rest of the world, not on that.

Oooh the irony!

You know you can just have multiple accounts on multiple instances, right? That gets you just about as full a view on the Fediverse as you might want. Heck, the only reason I'm not doing it is because I'm lazy.

Also, whining about db0 then moving to the instance that literally implements CCP politics and shadow profiling and comes from a dev known to have had a chip against heteronormativity and weirdness (if not against neurodivergence) is... not the win you think it is.

"By their actions you shall recognize them" and all that.

This all stems from a fundamental misunderstanding that no one seems to be interested in clearing up.

The original post that brought the allegations of feddit being zionist to more people is this one, and the one that originated the allegations is this one.

The feddit.org admin inside explicitly states that the removal of the comment being talked about by the original thread is not about pro-zionism or anti-semitism.

Now what does the person claim it is about? That seems to be majorly ignored. Let me rephrase it in my own words.

In Germany, after national socialism, we have very strict rules on how you are allowed to talk about it, because there were unfortunately a lot of people still denying it or not believing it. One of those rules is that no statement may be made that makes national socialism seem better than it was. So something you can't say for example is "Trump's ICE is national socialism!". This seems extremely weird from an outside (the person saying it's) perspective, because obviously, yes, the tactics Trump uses are directly borrowed from national socialism.

However, if you look at national socialism as a whole, it was much worse than just ICE. Millions were killed etc.

Now, the person who makes the statement "Trump's ICE is national socialism!" is obviously using it to express that ICE is terrible. But if you want to look at it from a certain way (which German law likes to do) it's also saying that they're roughly equal, which, since Trump and ICE is currently not quite at the level of full national socialism, would minimize the severity of national socialism by bringing it "down" to the same level as the Trump regime and ICE.

Obviously, from a perspective of a person today, this seems ridiculous, because the current threat is ICE and not national socialism, so who cares about "how national socialism is talked about exactly"?! Isn't it much more important to make sure that ICE is taken appropriately seriously? And you would of course be right. But the stance is that the ends do not justify the means, and it is very much possible to fight against ICE without comparing it to the whole of national socialism.

This is what is being talked about by the mods/admins. It has nothing to do with either anti-semitism or anti-zionism.

Now, if you say something like "Trump's ICE resembles early national socialism!", that is a completely fine statement to make in the eyes of the law. You are actually comparing ICE to what it actually is, "early [stages of] national socialism", and not "national socialism [in general]".

Feelings are running high, even as I type these words, I can imagine it. But please try to think about this stance for a moment and try to see that it is not Trump ICE apologist, or trying to minimize what ICE is doing. It is simply trying to pay heed to two important issues at the same time, of which one has much more immediacy and current real impact on people's lives than the other.

I used this ICE example on purpose because it is even nearer than the genocide in Gaza. And because it is farther away from "full national socialism style genocide". I hope I could make the thinking in this example clear, and I hope at least a modicum of rationality can be attributed to this.

And now let's go back to the original zionist accusations. The original comment was removed because of the last part of it, which said "Providing material support to Israel is no different from providing material support to Nazi Germany". As much as people don't want to see it, the situation in Gaza is actually different than the situation in Nazi Germany. The Jewish population in Nazi Germany never launched rockets at Germans, in fact, jewish people in Nazi Germany were exceptionally peaceful. In Gaza, there is genocide happening, there is a power differential, and Palestinians need to fight back, but there is simply no rational denying that it's not the same as the genocide in Nazi Germany.

Obviously what is happening in Gaza is terrible and Israel needs to be condemned, but what they're doing is still not on the same level of evil as Nazi Germany. And thus you could argue that comparing the situation in Gaza to national socialism is minimizing the severity of national socialism. And thus the same kind of argument applies as in the previous example with ICE, it just is even less understandable for a person who didn't know/understand/agree with this argument.

I'm basically sure I'll be condemned as a zionist now, or whatever, go ahead.

In Germany, after national socialism, we have very strict rules on how you are allowed to talk about it, because there were unfortunately a lot of people still denying it or not believing it.

True. But a lot of people on the whole Fediverse seem to be very narrow-minded black-and-white thinkers. In their logic, abiding to the law in Germany is equivalent to following direct orders from the Gestapo. Maybe you just don't want to get arrested and put in jail for running a niche community on the internet, but that's not even an argument to them.

Some people in that db0 thread even suggested feddit.org should just shut down completely, which is ridiculous. Every country must've laws you don't agree with, but you don't run and hide because of that.

This "we vs. them" attitude is exactly what's been criticized about MAGA all of the time, but doing it in this case is perfectly legitimate, somehow. I don't know what kind of brain gymnastics you'll have to do to come to a conclusion like this.

It's just exhausting trying to talk to these people. I say let them shut down their community and hang out in their radicalized bubble. Good riddance.

I meant the inability between distinguishing moderating hate speech and supporting genocide.

Lemmy.ml definitely has its problem with nuanced positions.

If that's your point, you replied to the wrong comment of mine earlier.

When I said "I don't agree on that claim, no." I was specifically referring to the claim that I oppose resistance to genocide, period. When in reality I'm opposing the form that resistance is taking, not resistance itself. That's why I said I don't agree with the claim made.

You don't seem to argue with that fact, you're just arguing about my actual position. Which isn't what I was denying.