Everyone has insecurities they have to overcome. It's less a barrier for others and more of a barrier for yourself if you don't deal with your personal insecurities. Confidence is attractive after all.

I have a lot of empathy for those trying to date. It's rough out there. Blaming other groups for difficulty in dating isn't going to help though. Gotta look inward.

And this goes for everyone, not just short men.

Why do you keep conflating insecure short men that lash out at others with all men?

Not sure if I really agree here. These insecurities don't materialize out of thin air for no reason. They are usually the result of prior experiences. Men don't wake up in the morning and think: "Damn I'm too short that sucks". They are usually being rejected or humiliated multiple times because of being short in order to be insecure about it.

I haven't done that a single time. Conflating some men with all men is much more your territory than mine, velma.

Edit: It figures that both comments velma would pick to illustrate this are the exact ones criticizing people like her for conflating some men with all men, not me conflating them myself.

Other than “men’s preferences are low class/shallow/reactionary and women’s are high class/just personal preference/justified”, of course.

you’re all over the thread blaming men who complain about their lived experience as “leading with their insecurities” and generally minimizing the problem.

You've done it twice now. We're not talking about all men. We're talking about short men who are particularly insecure and lash out and blame others for their insecurities.

They are usually being rejected or humiliated multiple times because of being short in order to be insecure about it.

Or they are consuming a lot of manosphere type messages and in online communities that boost this issue bigger than it actually is.

Because that was not what the prior post, or mine, was communicating? You have to skip over a lot of nauance to give yourself a reason to find injury and go on the attack here. They vented about the toxic expectation that all women be available to men.

This is a real thing women deal with that is not true in the reverse. So let them vent. Why pick a fight or be hateful?

This user has been stalking me to argue about gender war shit.

My father in law was also that tall and somehow convinced several beautiful women to marry him.

You have to skip over a lot of nauance to give yourself a reason to find injury and go on the attack here.

Not at all - you just have to recognize that women's preferences are seen as natural and healthy, and men's are seen as predatory, deviant, or bigoted, and that this was just another example of this tired trend that is still actively hurting men from both ends.

Gender war shit is all you ever comment about, so I'm not quite sure why me seeing your public comments on a few posts on the frontpage and replying to them is suddenly "stalking" to you.

Especially when you're the one spamming multiple responses to my comments.

👆

Are there girls like this? Yes. Just like there are shitty men, but to lump all of us in with them is ridiculous. They scream about not all men then they do the same shit.

You realize people will know you’re lying if they ever looked at my post history, right?

Is it such a shock that a topic like feminism, among many topics, would be of interest to a middle-aged queer woman living in the United States?

I don't get the insecurity and resentment about height but I suppose that's bc I don't understand it about anything

Woman makes more than me? Please ffs let me find you. I want to stay home with my kid and not babysit adults.

You're strong and can labor around here? Please ffs I could use a hand.

Smarter than know it all me?! Awesome! Help me figure things out and tell me your opinions so I can rest my overloaded brain.

Strong willed? Dom? Please please please - let me sub out - I make every fucking decision for everyone for decades. Tell me what to do. Slap me around if you want. Streets and sheets. I'm so tired.

Over a foot taller than my short ass? Wow - I kinda feel like the shit. 20s misogynist me is bragging about getting with someone so desirable that other short guys wouldn't be able to.

I don't get the point of hating women. There's like this whole other 50% of the population that brings this entirely unique perspective, wants to participate and have agency in life, proactively telling you they want the space to thrive... Just let all the ships rise and bring our sisters up with us.

Or I can be a whiny bitch about my dick feeling small bc women are fucking g's too...

Yeah, no brainer for me.

That’s exactly why I married a man like you :)

_shiraku should be kept away from drag events.

Youre trying to mock but like that's also valid. lol the whole world isnt gonna like you and thats just a fact. You can spend time worrying about the ones that hate you or you can spend time finding the ones that like you. No matter your demographic.

I'm only intending to mock people like revelrous who think that only the first opinion is valid. I completely agree with you and it's encouraging to see other people taking that stance as well. :)

NoScarcity isn't a drag queen.

But these “manosphere type messages” have only become this big and popular with young men because they are often being mistreated by women for these types of things.

Andrew Tate and the like are not the fault of women.

We all have to deal with different insecurities. I feel for them. But blaming women for it is not the answer and it's not helpful either. Women can't solve this for men.

I don't get what you're trying to say honestly. I have never said that every woman is like that, I have just said that thinking that no woman talks like that is delusional because there are plenty of women who do spout these exact phrases.

You literally just left a comment blaming women for the rise of misogyny and manosphere views.

But these “manosphere type messages” have only become this big and popular with young men because they are often being mistreated by women for these types of things.

Grasshopper, most people, not all, but most, are good. When you get into contention with them like this, it almost always comes down to a lack of understanding. Sometimes it's on them. Sometimes it's on you. The trick is to hunkerdown and figure out who's running the bigger deficit before you respond accordingly.

Men are not a mystery to women. They get a firehouse of male point of view starting from the cradle. Unless they grew up in very unique convent, it is inescapable. Its in the curriculum. The histories. The books. Media. Everywhere the default documented experience has been a man's. They know and understand the pressures that shaped you.

We teach men fuck all about women. If anything we push them further into ignorance. Societies love their hierarchies, and ignorance is the best way to mantain social divides.

It's not your fault that you will have to try harder to reach the same level of understanding. It wasn't fair to you to deny you this education when you were young and it was easy to pick up. But to understand you have to know you are playing catch up and you will have to try. The effort may be challenging and uncomfortable, and feel nothing like that sweet spike of gratification when you take a swing. Do not mistake what feels good with what is true. Maybe start with some Carl Sagan.

If you want to talk, we'll talk. Because yes, the banket perception of 'women pure, men depraved' is a thing. But it is ignorance is disregard the thousand years of context, to assume this is only hurts men. Don't jump down someone's throat because you don't understand. Listen, read, grow.

Tldr: fuck elon musk, get a library card.

Try not to let it get to you.

NoScarcity was also not pretending to be a woman.

Read it again.

Ah it doesn't bother me so much as it's annoying to have him take over comment sections. And I'm not one to allow a man to stalk me and not push back, which I recognize is annoying to others sometimes as well lol

Thanks :)

Or, they got rejected and humiliated many times years before the big, bad manosphere was even a thing, and even before they knew that they were considered short. Maybe some men overstate it, but it is a major issue in some parts of the world.

(It's cultural, so if it's not an issue where you are, that doesn't make it not an issue.)

Well, yes, and I stand by what I said (even tho I'm not really blaming anyone, rather pointing out the source), but that is still not really clearing up what you're trying to say here either.

Wait, is the “fellow kids” meme not widely known now?

https://trending.knowyourmeme.com/editorials/guides/where-does-the-how-do-you-do-fellow-kids-meme-come-from-the-classic-steve-buscemi-meme-explained

5'6" who had a 4'11" roommate in college and both of us were absolute HOUNDS.

I am happily married now. To a woman an inch and a half taller than me

Andrew Tate was allowed to rise to the level he did because of our culture's embrace of misogyny, not because women are choosing who they want to date.

Women aren't the driving force of the patriarchy.

I'm not blaming young men. They are victims here and are susceptible to the manosphere messaging because it is easier to blame others than to work on their own biases. But they do have work to do. Women fought for our rights, for our ability to gather in our own groups, to support each other and gain the respect that everyone deserves. We can't do that for men in the same way. Men have to help fellow men by being examples of positive masculinity and supporting each other.

Men being pressured to blame women for their problems, being pressured to be providers, being pressured to not show emotion, being pressured to conform to an ideal male form - all of that is from the patriarchy. It is the system that holds all of us back - men and women - by demanding we subscribe to strict gender roles.

I want to abolish the patriarchy because I love men. And I want men to be able to live their lives how they want without being told they're less of a man for doing so.

I had a friend who's 6'4“, and years ago he brought the woman he was dating to a party. After getting drunk, she was complaining about a time she was out dancing, and a man "only as tall as me" asked her to dance, and I remember well how she slurred, "thas jus' inappropriate!" (They broke up not too much later. I think he figured out that his height was the primary reason she was with him.)

Okay. Sorry to say, but I think you're just too deep into your "protect women at all cost" mindset to actually have a fruitful conversation with regarding this topic. I would just repeat myself now. Have a nice evening!

Yeah, encouraging men to lift each other up and be more positive to each other is me being too deep into protecting women at all cost. /s

.....yeah No Scarcity would be the Steve Buscemi pretending to be someone they aren't.

Right. The “fellow girl” phrasing is a flag to people of my age that says “this is a joke”, referring to how obvious it is that Steve Buscemi was not a “fellow kid”.

He’s an incel, but he’s not actually trying to impersonate a woman, in the same way that drag queens aren’t. Which is why I made the joke that _shiraku would ruin a drag event because they don’t understand the context.

I must admit, I honestly wasn't expecting your response to "women's preferences are seen as natural and healthy, and men's are seen as predatory, deviant, or bigoted and that hurts men" to be "skill issue, get a library card".

That sounds pretty out-of-touch/victim-blamey - maybe you should try listening for once, eh?

No Scarcity needed to be called out for pushing a tired, sexist trope. Incel ideology should be called out.

Why pretend to be a woman with these views if it's supposedly so common?

This is literally painting women as gaslighting abusers that are giving men false hope.

But that’s not what happened. _shiraku didn’t call out the incel ideology, just that NoScarcity did a poor imitation of a woman, which, in my view, was on purpose.

I think it's very important to velma's worldview that she never recognize the fact that men face systemic issues that aren't ultimately their own fault.

Maybe you and stopforgettingit are half-siblings from different marriages

Well, I make it a personal rule to never tell people what they believe, but in general, I have noticed over the years that women have the privilege of explaining their behavior in terms of culture and social pressures, while men have to be an island unto themselves. I take it to be a form of the Fundamental Attribution Error.

I think you're exactly right and I'm saving this comment for later.

I did. See the listening bit is quiet. You may not have noticed when it was happening. All sorts of dots to connect with you, and I haven't even stalked your profile.

"skill issue, get a library card".

You are being sarcastic, but metaphorically I am putting your face between my palms and trying to get you to nod along as I emphatically say 'Yes. Library card.'