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Eldritch
piefed.world
Eldritch@piefed.worldJoined: 2025-07-08 |
I didn't say any of those things, I am pointing out you are carrying water for european slavery empires by stripping the context. If you cannot get over the individual to understand the context, your understanding of people and history will continue to be egregiously broken and myopic.
No explicitly not. I've condemned France and the United States in plenty of places elsewhere in this thread for their behavior related to this. My critique of Dessalines is not defense of them. Or their empires. |
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Tango
piefed.ca
Tango@piefed.ca Joined: 2026-04-20 |
There's a number of negative things about the Lemmy devs as well. This isn't a whataboutism, or deflection. One of the lead Lemmy devs account is named for a genocidal dictator. I will give them acknowledgment and props for not perpetuating larger systems of oppression through software. Instead choosing to gleefully micro manage their own fiefdoms by hand doing it. Point being if you're using t...
What about kbin/mbin? I haven't heard anything terrible about them at least. |
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frongt
lemmy.zip
frongt@lemmy.zip Joined: 2025-07-31 |
BPR - I tried to look at this from both points of view. Both parties have had beef in the past, so tempers are going to be quick on both sides. Rimu could have done things differently, but AGPL is AGPL. There's no requirement to provide attribution unless the license is specifically modified. The PyLova license doesn't add that requirement from what I can tell. The creator(s) of PyLova are gett...
No. The AGPL requires declaring alterations to the code. You cannot alter the license. And you must attribute the original author. Rimu did not declare alterations and attempted to remove attribution. |
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supersquirrel
sopuli.xyz
supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz Joined: 2023-12-09 |
No explicitly not. I've condemned France and the United States in plenty of places elsewhere in this thread for their behavior related to this. My critique of Dessalines is not defense of them. Or their empires.
I don't really think you have done what you say, and if you have in this thread it has been from a defensive and reactive standpoint that concedes context and nuance rather than willingly invoking them. |
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Super Mega Ultra Edition DX Unleashed 64
sh.itjust.works
Trampampoline@sh.itjust.worksJoined: 2026-07-18 |
Oh so that makes it okay that they rounded up all the white polish etc minority on the island that had fought alongside them. And then exterminated them? That's some moral relativism right there if I ever heard it. I differentiate between the people of Haiti and their first self-proclaimed emperor. My sympathies lie with the people of Haiti. After fighting one revolution for their freedom. They...
Internet be hittin today, bruh |
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frongt
lemmy.zip
frongt@lemmy.zip Joined: 2025-07-31 |
Under the rule of Dessalines, Haiti became the first country in the Americas to permanently abolish slavery.
And Hitler was a vegetarian and loved dogs. |
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frongt
lemmy.zip
frongt@lemmy.zip Joined: 2025-07-31 |
[deleted]
Maybe don't spout comments when you don't know what you're talking about and can't be bothered to find out, then. |
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Luminous5481 "Enemy of the State"
anarchist.nexus
Luminous5481@anarchist.nexusJoined: 2025-12-23 |
BPR - I tried to look at this from both points of view. Both parties have had beef in the past, so tempers are going to be quick on both sides. Rimu could have done things differently, but AGPL is AGPL. There's no requirement to provide attribution unless the license is specifically modified. The PyLova license doesn't add that requirement from what I can tell. The creator(s) of PyLova are gett...
because Rimu blocked us for making the fork in the first place. we tried to reach out when we offered him patches for the zero-days that .ML user dropped, and he refused them before copy/pasting them to Piefed and purging the Piefed Matrix channel of anyone who called him out for being a manbaby. even MrKaplan said he was out of line when he admitted that he did it that way specifically so that Mia did not get credit for the code SHE wrote. these were bugs that had existed in Piefed, PyLova devs fixed them, and we offered them as a peace offering to Rimu since he was mad we forked his software. well, he burnt that bridge. now, if anyone wants to see further Piefed security vulnerabilities, they can just watch the PyLova changelog. we're not going to go out of our way to help him fix his shit anymore, and we're not going to keep security patches on the down low just to protect him and his shoddy fucking code. |
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| 23 | |||
Eldritch
piefed.world
Eldritch@piefed.worldJoined: 2025-07-08 |
I don't really think you have done what you say, and if you have in this thread it has been from a defensive and reactive standpoint that concedes context and nuance rather than willingly invoking them.
Your belief means nothing. Did the Haitian massacre occur or did it not? If it did that is a genocide. And that is wrong regardless of who. That's like saying I couldn't criticize George Washington as being a human trafficker and slave owner. Simply because he freed the Americas from England. |
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Ricky Rigatoni
piefed.zip
RickyRigatoni@piefed.zipJoined: 2026-02-14 |
Maybe don't spout comments when you don't know what you're talking about and can't be bothered to find out, then.
[deleted]
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unknownuserunknownlocation
kbin.earth
unknownuserunknownlocation@kbin.earth Joined: 2025-08-01 |
Your comment is whataboutism and a deflection. Saying something isn't what it is doesn't make it any less is.
This isn't whataboutism. Someone asked why people still use Piefed, and for a fair number of people, that is the reason. I personally only noticed the Piefed controversies bubbling up recently. The problems with the Lemmy devs have been known for years (at least to me). And some people may see what Piefed devs do as the lesser evil, whether you agree with it or not. |
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Universal Monk
lemmy.dbzer0.com
UniversalMonk@lemmy.dbzer0.comJoined: 2025-01-20 |
Of course he did. This is total PTB! Which sucks because I loved what Rimu was doing in the beginning by creating piefed. Then he banned me for no reason. Ok, dick move, but ok. I still supported him and his vision. More fediverse stuff, the better I thought. But then there was the whole karma rating and all that other stuff. Then seeing how he would reply to people who brought stuff up. Now this. Fuck that guy. He's proving himself to be an ass. Which sucks, because I really wanted to like him. Total PTB! |
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maam
feddit.uk
maam@feddit.uk Joined: 2024-11-20 |
That feature was made to silence Quokk.au. Rimu added it only after he started melting down and having issues with everyone.
Don’t Forget anarchist.nexus |
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Universal Monk
lemmy.dbzer0.com
UniversalMonk@lemmy.dbzer0.comJoined: 2025-01-20 |
I don't see how people can still use piefed with someone like this in charge. A new red flag pops up every month. It's hard to see them among all the other red flags.
Totally agree with you. Which sucks because I really wanted to like the project. But the more stuff that comes out about it and the creator just makes me shake my head. |
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Wren
lemmy.today
Wren@lemmy.today Joined: 2025-11-04 |
This isn't whataboutism. Someone asked why people still use Piefed, and for a fair number of people, that is the reason. I personally only noticed the Piefed controversies bubbling up recently. The problems with the Lemmy devs have been known for years (at least to me). And some people may see what Piefed devs do as the lesser evil, whether you agree with it or not.
It's definitely whataboutism. I asked why people use piefed despite the drama, Eldritch's argument was that lemmy devs are bad, and hey, aren't all developers kinda bad? That's like if I asked why some people like shit on their chest and they said "some of us don't like getting pissed on." |
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Sunshine
piefed.ca
Sunshine@piefed.caJoined: 2025-06-07 |
Don’t worry his Sycophants will make the excuses. |
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Universal Monk
lemmy.dbzer0.com
UniversalMonk@lemmy.dbzer0.comJoined: 2025-01-20 |
Man, I saw a single post from Rimu some months ago and pegged them as a scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds, censorious control freak totalitarian, months ago, blocked em. Is this person like... actually important in some way, or do they just... loudly think that about themself? They're a piefed dev/contributor or something?
I love this saying, but I always forget to use it! |
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walden
wetshav.ing
walden@wetshav.ingJoined: 2025-08-14 |
why don’t they act like adults and reach out? because Rimu blocked us for making the fork in the first place. we tried to reach out when we offered him patches for the zero-days that .ML user dropped, and he refused them before copy/pasting them to Piefed and purging the Piefed Matrix channel of anyone who called him out for being a manbaby. even MrKaplan said he was out of line when he admitte...
MrKaplan does seem like the most level headed person in this from the little bit that I've read, but that doesn't make him the AGPL police. On the topic of "should the comment have been deleted", I still see it as BPR. The overall tone wasn't in good faith, combined with previous beefs. You can't be surprised that the comment was deleted. |
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walden
wetshav.ing
walden@wetshav.ingJoined: 2025-08-14 |
No. The AGPL requires declaring alterations to the code. You cannot alter the license. And you must attribute the original author. Rimu did not declare alterations and attempted to remove attribution.
You seem pretty sure of that, but I don't see any of that in the actual AGPL license. |
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unknownuserunknownlocation
kbin.earth
unknownuserunknownlocation@kbin.earth Joined: 2025-08-01 |
It's definitely whataboutism. I asked why people use piefed despite the drama, Eldritch's argument was that lemmy devs are bad, and hey, aren't all developers kinda bad? That's like if I asked why some people like shit on their chest and they said "some of us don't like getting pissed on."
Your assessment of the Piefed's Devs' actions being worse than those by the Lemmy devs is a subjective one. That's precisely the point: one could argue that what Lemmy devs do is worse than what Piefed's devs do. And to be fair, not everyone knows about every alternative (although I will use the moment to shoutout Mbin, which, as far as I know, hasn't had any such issues - at least not yet). |
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Jayjader
jlai.lu
Jayjader@jlai.lu Joined: 2023-12-31 |
start reading argument about Lemmy and Piefed somehow end up reading about Haitian racist genocide. Internet be hittin today, bruh
When one of the lead devs of the Lemmy backend names their online presence after the enactor/leader of said alleged genocide, it's bound to come up at some point. |
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Wren
lemmy.today
Wren@lemmy.today Joined: 2025-11-04 |
Your assessment of the Piefed's Devs' actions being worse than those by the Lemmy devs is a subjective one. That's precisely the point: one could argue that what Lemmy devs do is worse than what Piefed's devs do. And to be fair, not everyone knows about every alternative (although I will use the moment to shoutout Mbin, which, as far as I know, hasn't had any such issues - at least not yet).
I never assessed such a thing. |
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frongt
lemmy.zip
frongt@lemmy.zip Joined: 2025-07-31 |
You seem pretty sure of that, but I don't see any of that in the actual AGPL license.
Section 5 |
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Wren
lemmy.today
Wren@lemmy.today Joined: 2025-11-04 |
Totally agree with you. Which sucks because I really wanted to like the project. But the more stuff that comes out about it and the creator just makes me shake my head.
Same here. I even tried it, finding the whole project tainted with Rimus outspoken ideals. While, on lemmy, all the bullshit is in the open and corralled into the devs pet instance. |
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A404
lemmy.dbzer0.com
A404@lemmy.dbzer0.comJoined: 2026-04-11 |
Drama again? 😐 |
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redrum
lemmy.ml
redrumBot@lemmy.mlJoined: 2023-06-25 |
You seem pretty sure of that, but I don't see any of that in the actual AGPL license.
It's a common practice and one of the few "moral rights" recognized in the Berne Convention:
Edit to add: Death to Copyright Laws! |
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Simon_Shitewood
lemmy.ml
Simon_Shitewood@lemmy.ml Joined: 2026-04-19 |
Most genocide is Mass murder. You are basically making an argument of ability and scope. Genocide is a genocide. And it doesn't even require murder all the time. Though generally it does include it. The fact remains that not only did he target what had become a minority group on the islands and wipe it out. Basically genocide. Worse they had been allies fighting alongside him. And the United St...
The American Civil War was actually the oppression of a South American minority group (white European slave owners) |
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YiddishMcSquidish
lemmy.today
YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today Joined: 2025-03-10 |
When one of the lead devs of the Lemmy backend names their online presence after the enactor/leader of said alleged genocide, it's bound to come up at some point.
And I thought wiki holes were fun. Like I've seen that name before on here. I had no clue about the history of it. Lemmy drama is so interesting and tangentially informative. |
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Simon_Shitewood
lemmy.ml
Simon_Shitewood@lemmy.ml Joined: 2026-04-19 |
Oh so that makes it okay that they rounded up all the white polish etc minority on the island that had fought alongside them. And then exterminated them? That's some moral relativism right there if I ever heard it. I differentiate between the people of Haiti and their first self-proclaimed emperor. My sympathies lie with the people of Haiti. After fighting one revolution for their freedom. They...
Interesting you'd mention the one white group that was completely spared due to allying with the revolutionaries. |
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Simon_Shitewood
lemmy.ml
Simon_Shitewood@lemmy.ml Joined: 2026-04-19 |
[deleted]
Says the guy with the pathological needs to comment on things he doesn't know about |
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| 16 | |||
walden
wetshav.ing
walden@wetshav.ingJoined: 2025-08-14 |
Section 5
This has already been debated on the internet and I'm not an expert so I'm giving up. I guess it boils down to what is a "copyright", and if the source in this case (PyLova) has a copright notice that needs to be copied over. That's beyond my expertise. Edit: Read this if you want to, but I'm not completely convinced that I'm right
Thanks. I'm trying to understand where you're seeing the requirement to give attribution still. I read this section as "if you use code from an AGPL project (PyLova in this case), then you need to: a) have a dated commit on the project that is using it (PieFed) Then there's a paragraph about aggregate projects and how the AGPL license doesn't automatically spread to all parts of those projects. So I'm still confused where it's required to say "Mia was the author". All it's saying is "this is AGPL code -- keep it AGPL and make the code available for others to see." |
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mindbleach
sh.itjust.works
mindbleach@sh.itjust.works Joined: 2023-08-27 |
It's definitely whataboutism. I asked why people use piefed despite the drama, Eldritch's argument was that lemmy devs are bad, and hey, aren't all developers kinda bad? That's like if I asked why some people like shit on their chest and they said "some of us don't like getting pissed on."
Okay. So why do you use Lemmy despite the drama? |
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mindbleach
sh.itjust.works
mindbleach@sh.itjust.works Joined: 2023-08-27 |
Dessalines, Rimu, Admiral Patrick... some people just cannot be trusted with the barest mote of power, and apparently federated software calls to them. |
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ZombiFrancis
sh.itjust.works
ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works Joined: 2023-06-24 |
Your belief means nothing. Did the Haitian massacre occur or did it not? If it did that is a genocide. And that is wrong regardless of who. That's like saying I couldn't criticize George Washington as being a human trafficker and slave owner. Simply because he freed the Americas from England.
The Haitian massacre did occur, but you're making claims that white allies were killed. You specifically cited the Poles in Haiti who were among the population of whites granted amnesty and citizenship for their role in rejecting the French. You were categorically wrong and are trying to breeze past it. |
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Wren
lemmy.today
Wren@lemmy.today Joined: 2025-11-04 |
Okay. So why do you use Lemmy despite the drama?
Preference. I tried piefed and didn't like it. I like lemmy. Lemmy's devs are more objective when it comes to their platform than Rimu is. The way the devs run their home instance doesn't bother me too much. There is no equivalent to .today, in terms of no blocked instances and a viewable modlog, on piefed. |
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frongt
lemmy.zip
frongt@lemmy.zip Joined: 2025-07-31 |
This has already been debated on the internet and I'm not an expert so I'm giving up. I guess it boils down to what is a "copyright", and if the source in this case (PyLova) has a copright notice that needs to be copied over. That's beyond my expertise. Edit: ::: spoiler Read this if you want to, but I'm not completely convinced that I'm right "5". Conveying Modified Source Versions. You may co...
Oh, I didn't realize you meant the attribution. Section 5 is about declaring changes. Attribution comes from including the original license, which should have a line like It doesn't look like PyLova changed this when forking, because the top of the license file attributes the project to the FSF, and the bottom of the file attributes it to rimu. So both projects screwed this part up, because piefed should contain a line like "portions of this software copyright 2026 rimu atkinson", and after picking the changes from PyLova, piefed should have "portions of this software copyright 2026" whoever is the author of the portions used. |
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mindbleach
sh.itjust.works
mindbleach@sh.itjust.works Joined: 2023-08-27 |
fact remains that not only did he target what had become a minority group on the islands The American Civil War was actually the oppression of a South American minority group (white European slave owners)
Did Sherman hunt down their families, after the slaves were freed? When you start bayonetting all children of the wrong ethnicity, because shooting them might be too noisy and let others escape, it doesn't really matter what justifications started the conflict. There was a line and it is behind you. |
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mindbleach
sh.itjust.works
mindbleach@sh.itjust.works Joined: 2023-08-27 |
Under the rule of Dessalines, Haiti became the first country in the Americas to permanently abolish slavery.
And then what happened? |
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Simon_Shitewood
lemmy.ml
Simon_Shitewood@lemmy.ml Joined: 2026-04-19 |
Did Sherman hunt down their families, after the slaves were freed? When you start bayonetting all children of the wrong ethnicity, because shooting them might be too noisy and let others escape, it doesn't really matter what justifications started the conflict. There was a line and it is behind you.
The line was subjugating and enslaving people - the colonists got their children killed. Also, how the fuck do you look at America today and conclude Sherman went far enough? |
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Luminous5481 "Enemy of the State"
anarchist.nexus
Luminous5481@anarchist.nexusJoined: 2025-12-23 |
MrKaplan does seem like the most level headed person in this from the little bit that I've read, but that doesn't make him the AGPL police. On the topic of "should the comment have been deleted", I still see it as BPR. The overall tone wasn't in good faith, combined with previous beefs. You can't be surprised that the comment was deleted.
a BPR on a post Rimu lied in to gether sympathy from idiots. we don't need to be level-headed, we didn't start this fight and we aren't the ones who keep dragging the drama back up. we're not the narcissistic loser who can't stand that he isn't in control of his little fiefdom anymore or that people aren't fawning over him like he demands. we also aren't the ones who purged our communities of everyone who didn't pass a Trump-style loyalty test. Rimu can get fucked. PyLova is now beyond his control, headed for a hard fork, and has more features and better security than Piefed ever did or ever will. and since he's pulling this shit, I'm considering rewriting the entire thing from scratch so we can use a license that requires attribution. so that the next time he uses patches we wrote to fix his shoddy code, he has to prominently display attribution to us since I know that will piss him off to no end. |
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mindbleach
sh.itjust.works
mindbleach@sh.itjust.works Joined: 2023-08-27 |
The line was subjugating and enslaving people - the colonists got their children killed. Also, how the fuck do you look at America today and conclude Sherman went far enough?
Systematic killing of children cannot be justified by a war that's already over, no matter how justified that war was. Dessalines rode from city to city making good and goddamn sure those children got murdered for being born wrong. Nobody with criticisms about reconstruction thinks the right answer was genocide. |
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mindbleach
sh.itjust.works
mindbleach@sh.itjust.works Joined: 2023-08-27 |
Okay, see? That's a strawman. Now you know.
Does one thing excuse the other thing, or not? Because if not - why would you have to mention it, when pointing out the other thing? |
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| -6 | |||
bss03
infosec.pub
bss03@infosec.pubJoined: 2023-10-02 |
Dessalines, Rimu, Admiral Patrick... some people just cannot be trusted with the barest mote of power, and apparently federated software calls to them.
For many the purpose of federation is explicit, intentional control over their bubble. This includes, but is not limited to, silencing critics and elevating the self. Honestly, the modern fediverse reminds me a bit the fringes of newsnet and IRC. Power-tripping moderators and god-complex "hackers" that know just a bit more about the clients or protocols than most people care to. And just like then, I ignore the drama and simply walkaway if it affects my client or entry point to the network. |
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| 9 | |||
alapakala
quokk.au
alapakala@quokk.auJoined: 2026-03-16 |
Just curious, but why not use Lemmy instead?
For me in particular:
Other stuff idcb:
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mindbleach
sh.itjust.works
mindbleach@sh.itjust.works Joined: 2023-08-27 |
For many the purpose of federation is explicit, intentional control over their bubble. This includes, but is not limited to, silencing critics and elevating the self. Honestly, the modern fediverse reminds me a bit the fringes of newsnet and IRC. Power-tripping moderators and god-complex "hackers" that know just a bit more about the clients or protocols than most people care to. And just like t...
Ah yes, the classic Bastard Operator From Hell. |
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| 8 | |||
alapakala
quokk.au
alapakala@quokk.auJoined: 2026-03-16 |
I saw the thread without context trying to defend their actions and I just laughed. "Boy golly, I'm just so new to this FOSS thing!" Like, I still don't really know the details, but this pattern has gotten old.
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Wren
lemmy.today
Wren@lemmy.today Joined: 2025-11-04 |
Does one thing excuse the other thing, or not? Because if not - why would you have to mention it, when pointing out the other thing?
What. |
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alapakala
quokk.au
alapakala@quokk.auJoined: 2026-03-16 |
Dessalines, Rimu, Admiral Patrick... some people just cannot be trusted with the barest mote of power, and apparently federated software calls to them.
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alapakala
quokk.au
alapakala@quokk.auJoined: 2026-03-16 |
🔁 in a few comms😁 |
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mindbleach
sh.itjust.works
mindbleach@sh.itjust.works Joined: 2023-08-27 |
What.
Wwwhy is it kinda weird, not to mention what you mentioned, when they mentioned what they mentioned? For what other reason would you expect the positive thing to be included with the negative thing? |
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